How to Find Your Purpose and Build a Business Around It with Paul Lemberg
Paul Lemberg helps entrepreneurs become wealthy. As a starving artist turned serial entrepreneur. With zero experience in the tech industry, Paul stumbles his way into a job as a software engineer. Year later, he had successfully built and sold 3 technology companies. Now, he elects to spend the majority of his time mentoring young entrepreneurs. Today, he is one of the leading influencers in information marketing.
In this episode Paul dives deep into how one should go about finding their purpose in life, and how to build a successful business around that purpose so that you can spend your time doing what you love. While also getting into topics such as how to become a proficient public speaker and how to effectively drive traffic to your content, Paul is an overflowing fountain of useful ideas and novel perspectives. Some interesting topics we cover include:
00:47- The timeless laws of business that never change
08:18- Utilizing sales and discounts to increase revenue
15:45- How to make one sale and make money for life
26:22- Paid traffic vs Free traffic – Pros and Cons
34:15- How to stop giving away content for free
44:07- How to become an effective public speaker
49:56- Public speaking 101: Conquering your fear
57:16- Watch my brain melt at the hands of an NLP master
1:10:29- How to find your purpose through mindfulness
1:29:51- How to know if you’ve found your purpose in life
1:39:58- How do I find my niche in business?
1:44:29- The #1 habit of success in young entrepreneurs
2:02:19- Steps to finding an audience for your message
The audio version of this podcast can be found here:
The most interesting excerpts from this podcast can be found here:
How to Find Your Purpose Through Mindfulness
Amazing Trick for Skyrocketing Your Productivity
Watch my Brain Melt at the Hands of an NLP Master
We have Paul Limburg today starving artists turn tech mogul these days he spends most of his time mentoring young entrepreneurs and believe me we go deep and how to run a successful business and the habits required for an entrepreneur to do so consistently. More importantly he describes in succinct detail how to find your purpose in life through stillness he teaches me how to reprogram my brain using neuro linguistic programming
and he explains the unexplainable what some people might call energy or even magic he described how it can benefit your life by observing the actionable results that it produces
the mental architect with Sam Sebring no blueprint for peak performance
be the best you can be.
We are here with Paul Limburg he is a starving artists turned into tech. Mobile tech God and free thinker does that about some you up or is there no it that going on cool No one's ever said that before yeah I think that's a pretty good catch phrase I like it what's been interesting in your life lately oh well let's see I'm in Thailand that's a good one yeah How'd you end up here?
I don't know where it came from. I've been wanting to come here for four years I hadn't left the US except for Mexico which I don't consider leaving. I go to Tijuana a lot and that's just it's just a crazy us the southern part of San Diego yeah
yeah. Unless the US since January 14, and have been itchy the entire time. So the circumstances showed up and here I am. Do you feel like yeah, more freedom over here. Just traveling around No, I live my life. I got a lot of freedom in life. What's different is what I see and who I talk to and what's going on and Dave
basis that's different. So what occupies most of your time back home and San Diego because I know that you ran a bunch of tech companies for a while you ended up selling them. And then I doing mostly consulting and things like that now. So in terms of my work, my work is split up into two main things, which is one is consulting coaching and advising and the and that's primarily for small ish entrepreneur companies typically running more than a million less than 10 million.
So that's, that takes up a bunch of my time. And then the rest of it is creating and selling information products. What do you mean by an information product, like the thing that I'm working on now is called 10 x velocity. And it's all about taking your it's not for startups. But it's like say you're doing 100 K, you've got a real business you're proven you can sell the thing that you've got, but you have no idea how to grow it. So you've reached like I'm a real business
But that's as far as you've got as a ceiling. So now the question is, you know, what are your goals you want to be to 50 on to be a million? Do you want to be as big as humanly possible? So I've got strategies that are pretty much work every single time for the people who work them. So that's an information product. The things that I look for and have always looked for are not necessarily the latest and greatest. In fact, they're never the latest and greatest stuff that I do, I think was invented by the Sumerians and the Babylonians. I mean, they know that, they knew their scenarios knew how to run a business, like they knew how to run an empire and they knew how to do up cells. They knew what did you learn from the Sumerians about how to run an empire? So I'm not an Empire Builder. And it's a great question. It's like something you're dealing with a Y SAS here, so yeah, what am I will I'm curious, what do you make a claim like that? And it doesn't necessarily have to be the Sumerians but But what have you learned from studying the old greats, so running so business, timeless business the nation
of business is timeless, the nature of the technology around the business might shift and and does shift. But business is timeless. Most businesses are the same people say, Well, yeah, I know you think most businesses are the same, but but my business is different. No, it's not. What's different is the technology of your business is different. The stuff that you sell is different, maybe how you make it as different, but you know, your operating hours might be different. But how you run that business is largely the same. And the things that make a business successful are largely the same. So there's a lot of generalities. Yeah, if you go to if you want to learn how to make your business better, and you go to somebody or your peer group or your friend group, or all guys who run the same kind of businesses that you are running, it's like, well, that's not where your best shot it's going to be. Or, God forbid you go to your friends who aren't doing from high school and ask for their advice. No, don't do that. Like over. Yeah, this is the thing so if we're talking I think we're talking about, you know, what's the general counsel
Here, it's like entrepreneurial ism being an entrepreneur. So the thing about being an entrepreneur is you can't take advice from people who aren't. Because everything about how they live their life. And everything about their decision making is fundamentally different. People who are not entrepreneurs tend to be risk averse. So an entrepreneurs tend to while you don't seek out risk, you don't have a problem with it. So if you're taking advice from people who are risk adverse, they're going to tell you to not do all the stupid things that you decide to do. Because it's scary to so
you say what I learned from the grades I I've read like every men motivational book a lot of really old business books at here's a good piece of advice. Like don't buy books that are in print.
Yeah, I mean, that's like, really a deal on paper. You don't Well, no, just don't. Don't read books that are in print. Oh, you mean? Oh, recent books is what you're saying? Yeah. It's like, Oh, yeah. sapiens, by the way, is a great button. That's it.
You know, that's a new book that people are talking about. And there are some, you know, don't take anything I say is being actual, factual. Yeah, yeah. But people say, oh, what new business books are you reading? I'm like, Well, I don't read any business books. Like, why would you read business books? I've read them already. And the new ones are just just versions of the old ones. Read other things. Feed your mind with diversity. What are the best ones? In your opinion, best business books and actually its best books in general, for becoming the Paul that you are today?
Got the best? Okay. I think the single best business book of all time is probably a book book called influenced by Robert Cialdini, okay, and if you have not read this book, so this is categorical and doesn't matter what business you're in doesn't matter whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you're a mom it this book, this is the book and it's called the influence it was written by a then college professor, he might actually still be a college professor.
named Bob child, Dini, and it's probably the most important book I've ever read in what sense? What what are the the main sticking points so the main sticking points at that there are things which influence how people make decisions mostly like how they decide to like you or not like you and what influences their their thought patterns and child Dini and says, say, social psychologists. So the biggest this is the thing that sticks in mind more than anything else is that if you give people a reason for your behavior, it doesn't matter what the reason is. And you've probably heard this story where he conducted an experiment of people there are people waiting in line for to use a copier or the renter's yeah and and the guy walks up and he says you know can I cut in line because I'm late for an appointment or can I cut in line because have to go to the bathroom or gets to Can I cut in line because I'm right there with us anything he No no.
It's because he stops there. Oh relapse the sentence that's even better. The one I've heard which I thought was the end of the road was hey can I cut in line to use the printer because I need to use the printer and that has actually shown to increase that's in Lyons rate like 30 or 40% I don't need that sin is listed but then he says because I saw today This works Can I cut in line because he doesn't say anything and he says is fundamentally no difference so it's just yeah like here's a here's a reason for it so you can adapt that say you're gonna run a sale
I don't like sales from the perspective of seem like you'd be good at it. No, no, no,
I didn't mean I don't like selling things no i don't i don't like sales which are discounts off of your price. Oh, okay. Great. So you're saying I look I run sales but the challenge with running a sale is if you do it too often then it resets what your what your customers thinking it's about the pricing. An example of that is Banana Republic to Banana Republic. I like their stuff.
Pretty well praise are always on sale every they're always on sale. They send emails with a new sale like every two or three days. So there are people who buy that stuff retail, I don't know who would. They aren't, I don't know why. But they're not paying attention. Because everything in that store is always 40% off. And if it's that 40% off today, it will be in two weeks. And I can wait. So
So the thing is, if you run sales and you condition your buyers to think that your prices are lower than you like them to be, that's bad. But occasionally you want to run a sale, maybe you need to stimulate some demand this week, maybe you have a mortgage payment that you have to make, or maybe you owe some taxes because he had a spectacular year and the IRS wants more than you know, the government wants more than their fair share, and you weren't prepared to pay it. You got to raise some cash. Well, that intensifies the customers that's a good thing to do.
But what you want to do is you want to tell them why you're doing it and you want to tell them
Why? Because you don't want them to think you're going to be doing this next week, right? We're all in, especially in the in the age of social media marketing, it's like you're in a cell everybody knows about. And if you run a sale twice, everybody thinks that your new price, so what you want to do is
tell them why you're running it and have a reason and have it sound authentic. You know, in other words, take a little bit more to someone good, authentic reasons, in your opinion. I'm sure it totally depends on the car. I screwed up. I made too much money last year. That's I mean, that's my favorite. You know, it's like, I screwed up. I made too much money. I wasn't prepared to have to pay this much tax. And the taxing authority is putting the heat on Oh, say, got a common enemy in there too. You've got a lot of things. You're basically you're bragging about how successful you are. And then you've got common enemy. So those are both good but anything along that sites I mean, I've used alimony payments we were talking about that yes, yeah.
Yeah, I've used my alimony payment says spousal support. It's like Yeah, dude, talk about the perfect niche. I mean, that's not going to trigger everyone. But if you have another dude who's going through alimony payments, and they read that copy, that's a sale at that point it at least the level of interest, yeah, it's just like, Oh,, I feel you on that one. Now, your personal reason about why you're reducing your prices at the moment should not be an incentive for someone else to make a decision. But what it does is it keeps the frame of the fact that you're discounting it to be temporary, and it also increases so
one of the challenges that you have in making a sale is getting people to buy now and the absence of their solid need for your product today, like they're having a problem that needs to be fixed. Like we really would love it if the customer's always needed our stop food is good for that. Yeah, right food.
Air, gasoline, you know, fuel for your car shelter customers, he always needs him. But the thing that you're offering today may not be something they need. So there's no intrinsic reason for them to buy the extrinsic reason. That's your false scarcity. That's your price incentive. It's some sort of promotional thing. So if you're going to be doing a promotion, you kind of give people a reason that makes them understand that your promotion is temporary, and that your pricing if you're doing a price promotion is not going to be permanent.
Otherwise, he turned into Banana Republic. Well, you've just you've lowered your price that's on and lowering prices, probably the worst thing that you could possibly do for your business. It may stimulate some sales and bringing some cash but it's going to bring in it dramatically less margin. Yeah, so your revenue might go up, but your margin goes down. And maybe it's just because I have been talking to so many entrepreneurs lately, but anytime I see a sale
My thought processes Oh, that 40% off is already priced into the product. So they're really just kind of bringing it down to what it should be. No, no, it's really not true. So well, let's take retail cuz it's easy to talk about
that may be true in information. But in, you know, maybe true in SAS things that that the cost of set custom consistent, really vary. But let's take real goods, physical goods. Let's say you've got a product like retail retail corner. So retail closing basically sells at two x. So Banana Republic is making until they start discounting, basically 100% margin
and that's great, except now they discount it and now they're down to 20% margin. That's a huge difference. Is that priced into their business model? Well, better be now, right? So now they're operating there permanently on sale. They're working on 20% margins. But occasionally people come along and they go oh, they like the
brand new stuff. That's why they change sound so often change styles. And the sales typically don't apply to the newest styles right away. She gotta wait a couple months before that goes on sale and then what they do is they come up with whole new categories so they have like vintage and vintages their most expensive so vintage doesn't go on sale except eventually starts going on sale too so then when vintage is on sale then they come up with private personal super clothing you know i mean they just keep coming up with new things. So each time if they don't even bother with the reasons they go like sell because you're our customer and sale because we like you but it's not built into pricing. they've shifted their business model so I don't know if their volumes got up. I have no idea and I don't follow that that sector but retail does not have it built in retail comes up with what they think they could sell down and they sell it until they can.
When they can't sell anymore now they've got merchant I sitting around, that's just costing them money because they had to buy it, right? So they've got costs where, you know, they have carrying costs of the merchandise sitting in the store. And the best thing to do is get rid of it. So now they just get rid of it. They hope to make money on getting rid of it, they will get rid of it to losing money because they want the cash back. So built. It's not it's built into their business model. But it's the profits that they're not the same way. You know, they get supermarkets, supermarkets run on razor thin margins. Yeah, they said touch points. And so anytime they start discounting, they're typically losing money and what they're hoping this is why it's called the loss leader. They're hoping that because they're discounting, you're going to come into the store and not only by the stuff that they put on sale, but they're going to buy you can buy other stuff which is not on sale because if you only buy sell stuff, they're losing money on you. So if you are helping
An entrepreneur build a business or you're building your own business, what is your difference in approach when it comes to, let's say, a traditional retail business versus an information business, such as the one that you're running? So information business, this is cool, because unless you're paying some royalties,
you're only cost the goods are, what did you pay the person who created the product. So if you shot video and you hired a videographer or an editor, or you have music in there, and you're licensing the music or you paid a copywriter to write your product, or you know, any of those kinds of things, does your production costs what's cool about those clusters there scalable, so you so they are cost of goods, and you did pay them to produce a thing. It's a one, two chickens, but I would more technically call an r&d
research and development. So there's my development costs, but once I create the product, whether I sell one unit or 60 million units, my cost of goods is the same.
So I love that stuff. So now the only question is how much can you charge?
And the more you can differentiate, the more you can charge? How do you determine how much you can charge? This is just how big your balls are. It has a lot to do with how big your balls are. You can price test. Okay, price testing is good. You can package things differently
tricky part about price testing is if your multiple customers talk to each other, and they all paid different amounts. Yeah, but there's a way around that. And it's really simple, which is you can price test by making slight changes to the product offer. I'm really tiny changes. I was gonna say price test people that speak different languages. Well, you can do that too, you know, or you can run different promotions every week and see which one sticks but you makes you make slight changes to the guarantee. You can make slight changes to how long your support is. You make slight changes to how many free minutes of your time if there's a live component, you can do all sorts of things that make sense.
So you can actually justify it. Yeah. So just so I can get a vision of your product, your, your TEDx velocity product that you're working on right now, is it mostly video is mostly audio is mostly text, what does that product actually look like? So the actual the, so the content, right? If we say that of an information product, typically as content and then typically has some versions of support. So the content in this case is video and it's PowerPoint videos, which are
there's a, there's a difference of opinion about whether Talking Heads worked better or PowerPoint videos and decide what are the difference between the two PowerPoint videos. So talking head is I've got a camera here and it's looking at you and you're saying all the things that we're saying Where's PowerPoint video is I might be saying those things and I have slides which just reinforce this okay. And I think from a pedagogical stamp, but you know, from a learning standpoint, that the side video works better. It also feels like there's a little bit more
production value in a little bit more effort put into it. Even though that might not as more than talking room it's the opposite. Yeah, it's the opposite. But from a consumer perspective when I see the slides with it, it's okay I'm kind of getting something a little more concrete that's so interesting to hear you say that a dishonor to sell his opinion i don't think anybody's done the research you know that most speakers who stand up and say oh I've tested this you know it's not true you've thought about it I thought about tested and and maybe I tested my thoughts and maybe I've run a test of some kind but usually these things aren't projectile usually these things aren't forecast the ball you know in other words, this is not real data but if you say hey anecdotally I did this and I did that and ask people which they like better that's the test of sorts
yeah My opinion is that oh the talking head stuff show much harder to produce I'm not really takes work to produce it well, do you get his talks and then you gotta right then we're not taught me out a product that you can sell for a year. So design the thing I'm doing
Right now is ice. We started out by talking about the Sumerians and I said, this is Memphis timeless, the things that I'm teaching I've been teaching for 20 years and they were 20 years ago there were 10 years ago there were five years ago their work now than work 10 years from now, they'll probably work till the end of the human race. So I don't do stuff I teaches never This is what's working in social media today. And the reason I teaches is a is not that interesting to me and be if I sell that product today, like whatever today is six months from the price can be close to worthless, right? So I don't teach those kinds of things. I teach the strategic premise of how you build your business and people look at the last at a product once called formula formula five was a it was a huge success. It was a multi million dollar launch. A lot of people bought it was great product made a lot of people a lot wealthier than they were before they started that's really cool.
I run into people at airports conferences things like that. And they go oh you're Paul Limburg you sell four No. Five, right? I'm still using like, Oh, what a compliment. You know, we created this thing in 2008 and sold it in 2009, 2010
and people run up and say, Hey, I'm still using it. It still makes me money. I'm like, oh that's perfect. That's exactly what he want. It's what I want you know other people people who teach in today's social media techniques don't want that and you are being incredibly selfless by putting that type of content into a product which I assume these product is just a one time fee and you get the product right so so that's so there's there's a business model and it's a one time fee for the product you could do the practice of SAS thing like pay for access forever but don't do that I sell the product one time fee you went to get access to the content I I would like to be able to say you'll have access that forever. That would be a lie you'll have access to as long as how you leave it up. You know, it could be yours, so
I'm not worried about it. You know, it's like host space occasionally then things break and it goes down somebody calls like nine years later and they say you know I bought blueprints that if you're listening I apologize. A guy who drop me a note a few months ago and he said, I I lost my access to blueprints to profit. I'm like, I can't help you, dude. I don't know what happens in the database of passwords. I can't give you a new and it's not up anymore. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of lame, but nine years, nine years, sorry. So I can't say you have access to it forever. But you'll have access to it for as long as it's up which could be yours.
But then there's a live component and the live component is really valuable because I teach this well, and by live Do you mean like a live webinar where you can interact with people or what so it's not a live webinar these are in in the world of info products. People call these coaching calls and what a coaching call it could be anything often these things are just somebody on the other end of a phone line talking at you.
My coaching calls are all q&a or hot seats. So in other words, if you've consumed the material, then you come to a call. And we do them take twice a week, so people can fit them into their schedule. You can come as often, or it's not often as you want, and you ask questions, so you can submit your questions. How long will you do that? Because clearly, you're not doing that for nine years. So no, and I'm not doing that for free either. So when you buy the product, you get access to it for 12 weeks. And that's, you know, some people do that for weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks, a year, whatever, I do it for 12 weeks. And then and you get what you get is there's a few things so there's the live calls, then there's a, a private Facebook group, so people interact with each other, and that's valuable. And they asked questions, and my moderators answer them, so that's quite cool. And then if you submit a question and it's beyond the scope of anything we want to do in public or if it's so complicated, it's not gonna serve anyone else will get on the call and do a live session with you. Nice. So that's all within the
The frame of 12 weeks after that if you want to keep going there's a monthly fee okay and it's you know if you're putting the thing into place all the things that I do are repeatable in other words so so let's say you decide this is one of the biggest things and and this is a tip you should write this down if you're if you have a business most business owners are selling one thing one time
that's it think of divorce rate divorce related versus like the worst business in the world from the standpoint of you're selling one thing one time now Yes, of course some people have multiple my dad had four wives so I guess he paid a divorce lawyer to three times but generally speaking, generally speaking, that's a one time hopefully learn your lesson the first time Yeah, most people don't
from what I've seen. So most people sell one thing one time one thing one time which means all of your cost of customer acquisition have to be amortized in that one thing one time deal. Whereas if you make the second
Now you can more than double your profits on that customer. So learn how to make the second sale. So I teach people how to make the second sale the second sale if you're a divorce lawyer is going to be something else just to stick with that example even like how to get laid now that a single that wouldn't be better, least a referral for somebody who's doing that. So yeah, so you can become an affiliate, a divorce lawyer could become an affiliate for all sorts of other things. So in your case, the second sale where the live mastermind sessions and things like that, so the live coaching sessions are built in so we give them free but the second sales, the continuity, okay or the second sale is I sold people a car how many car dealers actually go out of their way to make the second sale very few as it turns out, successful ones, every one of them ones, most of them don't. But you learn how to make the second sale. The second sale may be the same product that may be something else now. So with my stuff, if I teach people how to make the second sale, they'll do that.
They'll make a ton more money. And I really don't have to do anything else I won. So let's now if we tell them that a year later and we say, dude, are you making the third sale? I'm like, there's a third sale. Oh, there's a third sale. Or we teach them how to raise prices. And a year later, we teach them how to raise prices again.
Wow. W business the first time. Oh, double it again. Oh, double it again. Oh, double it again. You can do that every year. It's exponential. It is exponential. Let's say we're geometric. I'm never sure what one of the dude is polygons and triangles in there somewhere. You you Paul, you finished your product you've recorded at all it's awesome at your PowerPoint. You're talking head or whatever. You've got a plan for the second sale, I got all that it's all in place. How do you drive the traffic to this website or to this information product that you've worked so hard on. So this is
one of the there's only a handful of most important questions. It's hard to say which one's the most
Most important, most important one, so most people who are I'm not gonna say information product people, but there's a lot of that to most people who are in the coaching and consulting world are using free marketing. Okay, some version of free marketing, whether it's they're asking for referrals or their networking where they're speaking or they're on other people's podcasts or whoever, whatever it is that they're doing. They're using some version of free and we like free because it helps you get started. And the sinks are typically fast. In other words, if you are here, this is a piece of advice for somebody who wants to start a coaching or consulting business today, what do you do? You make a list of all of the people you know who trust you, and you call every single one of them. You tell them what you're up to, and you ask for a referral. You could have clients by the end of the week, so that's pretty cool. It's awesome. In fact, wow, free and it costs you nothing. There's no cost to sell unless you feel like incentivizing your friends so that it's like 10 to 50% off and you only pay for
So that's really awesome. accepted this at scalable. No, no, you can't do it on demand. You can do it a few times. But after a while, and that could get you to a quarter million dollars a year. But it's unlikely to get you to have a lot of friends. If you're getting a quarter million dollars a year, or you have a good pricing. Yeah, but it won't get you to 5 million, it just won't. So all that free stuff is great. Now, there are a lot of information products, people who use another version of that, which is affiliate marketing and affiliate marketing is another version of free marketing. should wait a minute, I have to pay the affiliates that will Yes, but you get paid perform. Yeah. So it's only pay for performance. Okay, that's good. But once again, getting affiliates to market on your timeframe is hard to do.
After a while. It's hard to scale unless you are a really big name. But if you're the typical average creator of stuff, and you don't have a gigantic network, then it doesn't scale infinitely. And even if you have a gigantic network and you
You're like a totally kick information marketer and you're doing 5 million a year, which is fairly awesome. There's not that many people doing much more than that. How do you get to 10 million?
Take the 10 x velocity course? Well, you have to take 10 x. And the simple answer is paid traffic. Okay. And paid traffic is,
you know, today it's LinkedIn. If you're in b2b. It can be Google if your b2b or b2c and it's typically going to be Facebook, if you're selling to consumers, typically, you can also sell it this is a little bit that's down the line. If you're just getting started. You don't really want to start with paid traffic unless your balls are huge. My fat my my inclination is, I'm always I always prefer paid traffic what I prefer pay traffic because it scales so if I have to invest the time in how to do something I'd rather invest the time and how to do paid traffic because I can scale it faster. Okay. And but that's just my philosophy. And there's a lot of people who will argue with me
In my course I'm teaching paid traffic. Because yes, it's harder to get off the ground. But once I get it off the ground, I can multiply much faster. Check it out. Let's see, I figure out how to make the machine work. And for every buck I put in, I can get a buck out.
Now that doesn't sound very exciting, and get a put a bucket and get a buck out on my first sale. If I could do that, I'm going to be very happy person because I can make money on my second sale. Ideally, I can do better. And ideally, what I really would like to see is put a buck and get three out and if I can, if I can get in if I can make it. So this is the cool part. It's really hard to optimize your affiliates. It's really hard to optimize your referrals. It's not hard to optimize your speaking but there's a limit unless you're a psycho and you're really into learning like every speaking technique that there is and then you can do better up to a threshold
I once made for
hundred thousand dollars in a day. It's a businessman I'm bragging now I made 400,000
bucks in a day on somebody stage who was the at the time the number one guy put people in the room and the number one guy at getting people to want to buy stuff from his speakers. There are people who were better at getting them to buy their own stuff. But this guy was number one at getting people to buy from his speakers. So I was lucky enough to be you got to know I was on his stage nine times and I made a whole batch of money but one day I made 400,000 bucks I was like, Okay, I don't know any other way to do that. How are you able to tell that it came just from because you're talking about your home because they were sales I made in the back of his room. Oh, nice. Yeah, no, that's what the self report said it was really goal in fact, that's actually really exciting. But that's just that's a brag anytime you can stand on someone's page and make 510, 15, 20,000
bucks. This is a killer day you know you've made but Megan half a mil that's a hell of a it was an Austin
I Truthfully, I was on this guy's nine, I was on stage nine times, and I never made less than $75,000
each. Wow. So those were oftentimes I wish he was still in business. And he's not so many things I want to ask you based on all the things you just said. So I want to close out this one piece, okay? Which is that if you can get your paid traffic to breakeven, okay, in other words, put dollar and get $1 out put a bought in and get a bite out. I just say that cuz we're in Thailand.
Well, wouldn't be much to put a pot and we get a bit it put it bought in and get $1 out. Now our it's our back to Yeah, we're rocking
a fight. But bots are worthless, by the way, for the people who have another conversion or just call it one to 30 Yeah, so
yeah, one but 30 forget it's one out of 30. So if we can get to break even and then we apply optimization principles we can get it to 123 once.
We get it to 123 and we're happy. In other words, I put dollar and I get $3 out then
then all I have to do is put more dollars than. And so say my goal is to make $100,000 a month.
Say My goal is to make 1000 a month. I'm living in Chiang Mai. And it's a I'm gonna be happy with 1000 or 2000 or 3000 a month and said, my goal is 3000 a month and I get it to work. I could put 1000 bucks into my advertising I can get $4,000
out of it. And I'm keeping three and I'm gonna come I'm really happy camper now. All I have to do is put in more dollars and so that's why paid traffic is better than why because you can put more money in once you got it dialed in. Yeah, now I could say I can dial in my affiliate stuff. There's no way I can triple my affiliate dollars tomorrow but I can triple my paid traffic tomorrow or pretty close tomorrow. That's why I prefer it's harder and some cases it's going to be beyond people's
skill set, right? And there's tons of there's tons of free and paid information about how to do this. But it still takes work. It still takes focus, it still takes really analyzing what you're doing. It takes all sorts of skills. But once you get it working, that's how you get to like 20 x 50 x. Because you guys keep scaling it, you can just keep scaling it until you break that traffic source or until it goes away. And then you find it another one. Yep. If you're smart, you have multiple traffic sources. So the brands that I personally admire and this is a two part question. So the brands that I personally admire, follow the model that they put out a lot of free content for example, a lot of free content on YouTube and then they put out maybe podcasts whatever it is you want to do blog whatever and then they have paid content behind that and so they build their brand with the free content and then they have the paid content get it so first question is do you think that that's the business model to go for? A second question is let's say that Israel
Your business model, you have the paid content behind and you have the free content in front. And let's say you're paying for traffic, do you drive those those customers to your free content? Or do you drive them straight into the paid content? Yes. So yeah, so that was a snarky way of saying it depends on the situation. So it also depends on who you're speaking to. And you can absolutely drive paid traffic to yourself. Others you can drive paid traffic to your landing pages. You can pay drive, paid traffic to an opt in so you can do all that and it still works but some platforms are getting really squirrely about it. So let's talk about Facebook just for a minute. Facebook is getting more and more squirrely about you driving your paid traffic directly to a sales message. And so what more and more people are doing and they're doing it not because it's a better system they're doing it because it works better for
The platform owners, so the algorithms work better with you if you don't drive it straight to copy. Yeah, I mean, if you look at what. So what's Facebook want to do Facebook real. They want to sell advertising. They want to sell lots and lots and lots and lots of advertising. But what makes their advertising valuable is if they have users who are not there, to engage with your advertising, they're there to talk to each other. They're there to connect with their family and our high school buddies, so or whatever buddies they had left. So depends on who you are. So if all you get is advertising messages that drive you to sales letters, then eventually the users leave and the platform is the value then all those billions of dollars or at least click on your ads anymore, or they just stop click on your ads and then your ad space is worth less. So that's why quality score comes in. So in defense, what marketers have done is started to drive and that started to started three years ago, four years ago, five years ago that people start
To drive paid traffic to free content, and then the free content actually has the call to action which drives people to a sales process and drives them into, you know what people are calling funnels now, which is just a new name for sales process. So that's the that's what's working today and are we dating this? We know what data this this is 2018 This is June on you know June so we are dating at 28 alright so we're in the middle of June of 2018 in the middle of June, the strategy that's working better is driving people to content which is sharing value of some kind that's in the value is in the context of what it is that you're offering, and then having a call to action which is putting people into your sales process one way or another. That makes sense. So that's, that's today 12 months from now who can say yeah, it seems like there's a very high level of entitlement when it comes to the consumerism I mean, there's just so much free
content out there to get someone I mean, man I you show me someone who's putting out paid content I can probably find someone is putting out free content of the exact same subject that's probably just as good true and will they hold your hand through the process? Will that content be complete? Will it be structured in a way that you can maximize the value of it will have enough examples which are relevant to your business. So look in the days of the internet like now information about I think in the context of healthcare so there was a time and it's in my lifetime there was a time when doctors knew everything and patients need I think at this point about this oh how the tides of types of turned in the subjects that I personally care about, you know, everybody has their own health challenges eventually and
In the subjects that I care about, I actually know more than the most expert experts. Why? Because my information is fresher than theirs. Yeah, they have an advantage over me, which is that they have emergency experience. Now, they have the experience, like they're talking to patients all day long. And they get to experiment. They're smart, they get to experiments. So they have that they also have buddies, they have some tighter sources of network and information than I have. But I dug into this thing more deeply. And I have the time to do so. And my concerns are greater, so I know more than they do. Okay, that however, assembling that information is difficult. So let's say you want to learn how to do paid Facebook ads. Yes, there's a lot of free information out there. It's all incomplete. Yeah. Now, can you assemble a complete perspective on it? Yes, absolutely. But it's going to take you time. So the question is, would you rather spend four weeks assembling the information or whichever
plunk down $2,000 and buy it depends on what your time is worth depends on how much free time you have. So yes, there's tons and tons of free information out there. And if you are like, if you don't have any cash, then that's a great place to start. But if you have the money, the info products, if you're buying them from a reputable creator of info products, they're going to give you a complete perspective. They're going to give you a step to step end to end process. And they're typically going to give you support on how to implement that process. And that's valuable. There's also this interesting psychological, I guess, fallacy if that's what you want to call it in that if you pay for something, you're much more likely to pay attention to it and implement it, you know, but it's not who you are. I mean, that's just something I found in my experience, you know, like, let's say, I go to that stage where you've got $500,000
a day to talk and I sat I paid let's say, hypothetically, I paid a grand to sit in that seat and I watched you speak that particular day and we taken notes on it.
Every single word you say, and I'm going to take action on those notes. The second I leave, you can take a video, that exact same speech that you gave you, and put it up for free on YouTube, and then show me the exact same person that was just sitting in your seat taking notes. And I would think it's interesting, but it's unlikely that I will sit down, take notes and take massive action on it. Just because it's kind of
paralysis by choice. There are so many other people on stage on YouTube. So I don't think it's a fallacy
I know it's not true for every individual. And because I'm one of those people who will pay 15 grand to be in a program and then they use it.
So that's, that's, that's the counter example. And then there are other people who will pay $500 for a program or actually find some free information and implement like crazy. So what you're saying is probably generally true, but it's not relevant. Yeah, right. The relevant part is so for me, I'm an information
marketer, the relevant part for me is not that everybody in the world buys my stuff, that would be cool. But it's probably not going to happen. But I just need like my 5000 users from beginning to the end of time. And I'm a very happy camper. So, you know, I was look at it and I say, well, wow, there's in the United States alone, there are 28 million businesses that includes big corporations 28,000,028
million What the that's like it's a lot one in 10 people have a business it's pretty close. Right? And that includes giant corporations and that includes people who have no employees or you know, it's like the entire spectrum of businesses but just 28 million businesses can I find 5000 people to buy myself yes
period and now multiply that by three roughly right if we it's I divide the world up into three markets I know my thinking so little out of date, but it kind of like this. There's United States then.
There's the EU and then there's China
now that basically constitutes most of the will get to that point that constitutes most of the world and then you could say well
Austria Asia Pacific minus China and that's another market that's actually a pretty big market because a lot of the countries that used to be and this is like my us centrism you know imperialist capitalist thinking which is like what we used to call the third world that's a pretty big market yeah you know if you just say take take China adamant you've got the bricks okay so that's a pretty big market so there's probably four markets the one that we don't have a name for yet call it the the developing world with the Pluto market which is pretty insulting we've got that we've got China we've got the EU and we've got the US and and so say there's 20 million multiply that by four we got 112 million Geez. Since
Enough, right? Like, you can find your market areas. Yeah,
that's interesting. So you get on stage $400,000
that day, or even, maybe not, let's just say, let's call it 40,000. Yeah, I'm a happy camper. It's called 1000. Most people feel it's called forth so I'm happy. It's called 20 bucks. Most people
had 20 bucks but you get on stage to speak and you get paid for it. And yeah, I never get paid to speak By the way, I'm not one of those guys. I get paid to sell stuff on stage. Um, so the idea is you're going on stage and you're getting eyeballs from that and then you sell your product on stage while giving out advice well regardless it's the same model by the way you get people bunch of free information and then you sell them the product yet so you have you have a kick stage pointers and you're in you're speaking on it. I can't speak for everyone but for me, that is a massive personal goal to speak on stages to be a public speaker it's a blast How did you get yourself to that point? Because the way I see it and I
I'm almost positive, your answer is going to be Will you have to do both. But
the way I see it is you have this podcast yourself. Well, I'm curious what your opinion is. Because the way I see it is, you know, you have the actual business that you built, and you have your personal brand and who you are, who, who the as Paul, what have you done? And then you have how effective are you as a speaker
of those two? Which do you think played a bigger role in getting you on that stage
and getting you coming back to that story? So I'm gonna give you a tip never have multi part question. Okay,
because I don't remember how we started. Okay, so I'm just going to give you the answer I want to give you sure, which is that I started by being really sucky at it.
That's the best advice that I can give. Anybody who wants to speak is to be willing to look really, really bad. Get some good content, have some totally kick content, give them stuff they've never heard before, or they've heard it but you're going to take
Column better. That's By the way, that's part of my pitch all the time. When I'm up on stage, I almost always say this. It's one of the first things I tell my say, Look, you've probably heard much of what I'm going to tell you before. But you're going to sit there, by the way that goes for this, this podcast, too, by the way, which is, you've heard a lot of stuff before, but you've never heard it the way it's being said to that like this. If you sit there and save yourself. I've heard that I've heard that I've heard that you may as well like, turn the thing off, go get a beer, do some work, have a coffee, do something. But don't listen. Because if you're gonna sit there and go, I've heard this before you don't have the possibility of learning anything. On the other hand, if you believe me, when I say you've heard this before, if you've never heard it like this, and I'm going to share it with you in a way that you're going to be able to understand it so that you can take action and if you take the mindset on that says, Oh, I better listen with fresh ears. You have the possibility of having transformation your life and that's what I'm all about. So I say that every
Every single time I get on stage, okay?
Learn to say something uniquely learn to do something really powerfully, and valuably and know your. Or at least know what you're gonna say for the next 45 minutes. And then be willing to do it badly. So I started by doing it badly. But I had great content. I got on stage, and I would get on stage,
every single place that would have me it did not matter. As long as they were going to be entrepreneurs. I was going to talk to them and I would get up there and tell them what at the time was every single thing I knew that was that I told him every single thing I knew now people call it That's crazy. Why just how everything thing I you know, I mean, like, they didn't know that like, Who would do such a thing. Nobody would get on stage and teach every single thing they knew. So they just had to assume that I knew more, which in this case was not true. It is now because I had told them every single thing I knew and it was great because I was bad. I was boring I collected
Know how to stand and not to speak. I didn't know how to do anything, but I made money
and I see me did it for free. It first will know it's only for free if you don't get paid. So this never paid me. I've gotten paid speaking fees, maybe 20 times in my life. It's not my mission. I like paid speaking face. That's a great business. If you're good at it's not my thing.
But I would get on stage and I there's no patch. You know, if you speak at the Rotary Club, there's no pitch. If you speak at the Chiang Mai Chamber of Commerce, there's no pitching. Yeah, so you get on stage and you're they don't want you to pitch you don't want to say, Oh, I have this thing for you. It's going to cost me an arm. But what you would say is I'm going to eat you know, if you thought this was interesting, this is the kind of work that I do. And if you have any questions Meet me in the back of the room. That was the one thing I knew how to do. That was my big clothes and people would always come to the back of the room and so I you know, I don't know if I was lucky or if I just had awesome content or
wide or if I was so authentic that people believe me, but from day one every single time I stood up in front of the room, I made money. And that was consulting. I wasn't telling him for product. I was selling consulting, but say, Hey, you know, I'll answer questions. Meet me in the back of the room. If all you learn from this conversation is, Hey, I'll be happy to answer your questions. Meet me in the back room, you will make money because people come to the back of the room and they say, Hey, you know, they say, Sam, I have this problem with this thing. have this problem.
Oh, no, I'm standing on the wire. Okay, good. Let's not do that anymore.
Yeah, so Sam, you have a problem with this thing? Sam, I have a problem with this thing. It's like, Can you help me? What are you gonna say? Absolutely. That's right. The answer is always Yes. No matter what, of course. Now, after a while, when you start to have a book of business that answer shifts because you don't want to take stuff that's outside of your wheelhouse. But when you're just trying to get started and you're consulting I don't know what you do. Anyway, then it's like
longest the subject you're speaking on has something to do with the thing that you want to help people with, then you probably have decent match. So apart from just sheer practice, what steps did you take to develop your speaking ability? Because you I read a lot of books, you're very profound speaker. I mean, just in a way that you present your content. But I mean, even in things that I've kind of, sort of convince myself that are hard to change, like, how deep your voices and things like that it
wasn't just reading a voice I got from my dad. Yeah, you were born and raised voice. The voice I got from my show. You hear this all the time. But your voice is so killer man. If you had a podcast, it would go number one, just because of your voice.
Well, thank you. So we're going to discuss tips on that later because that's actually my next project.
My dad gave me this voice. I had the high voice of my family, and in some cases, the high voice in your family as well. God in the sixth grade. I was the captain of the HMS pinafore simply because I had the deepest voice so the two kids in the class
Who had the deep voice has got the two starring roles? Nice. And so that was my start. No, that was that was like the gift. The rest of it was work and to cultivate wrestler. It was work. It's practice. It was reading, like every book that there was on the subject and learning what I could learn. And then it was taking courses and hiring consultants and practicing and speaking as much as possible. So they say, you may have heard this they say that for most people that the fear of speaking in public exceeds their fear of death. Yep. My my belief on why that could possibly be true is people don't think about death being imminent, but they do think about the speech that they have to give as being eminent that's the only reason but given that it terrifies most people, and it terrified me for probably the first 10 years and then I nears Yeah, for 10 years. I had a heart for you to be sitting here right now. And for me to imagine you not as a profound speaker. Oh, I was a decent speaker. I was still
terrified I really don't go back and watch some early like some early content of yours just so I can see the progression. It's not as good
I will share with you what shifted for me
because it was cool. Let's hear it. So I'd heard this story a few times about how Henry Fonda so Henry Fonda was a stage actor and then a movie actor and I guess in the 40s and 50s and 60s and he's Jane Fonda's father Peter fund his father.
There's some other funders. But anyway,
Henry Fonda was a stage actor for most of his life, and threw up on stage every, not onstage, but through up every single time he was going to go on stage. So when at well into his 70s, like it never went away, and he'd go on stage. And you know, he was Henry Fonda so they took care of them, but like there was always a bucket for the guy to throw up and then after he threw up, he was fine. So I heard the story I was like, Oh, this is never gonna go away.
Yeah, sheer terror to the point where I certainly couldn't have a cup of coffee, but I couldn't even drink water was like, so I was always hungry. like four hours before I spoke because my stomach was just a rack. And it was I was just, and then I was fine. And here's what I learned. I learned, I learned that as soon as I started talking, the fear went away. Like immediately, as soon as stuffs coming out of your mouth, there's no room for fear. So it was cool. I said, Okay, if I know my opening line, so I'm not one of those speakers who ever since the same thing twice. I have no memorize speeches I can't do and I hate it. If I had to have what speakers call a signature story I'd tell myself but I could memorize my first line. So if I knew what my first line was. I didn't have to worry about that. So I thought that that would handle everything. It made it better. It didn't have a go away. So I still felt this feeling that if you
had it in your body you would call it terror to
and that was my big insight. One day after hearing the Henry Fonda story. I was like,
Oh, this feeling that I have going on them in physical feeling in my body. It's like this physical feeling that stat terror. That's what my body feels like before I go onstage,
that's a huge day frame. Really gigantic ship. And the day I figured that out, I felt better about I still felt it but I felt much better about it. And then I don't know two or three times of speaking after that it completely went away No it did go at it completely went away. See I don't get it anymore anymore. But that was about 10 years it Yeah, it was like amazing. I was like oh, that's just how my body feels. Yeah, really interesting. And then I started applying that thought to a lot of other things
that was cool is just the feeling I get when I about to go talk to a pretty girl or will in a bike it's it's a really
Really great way to vanquish fear of whatever because so a lot of people don't get this, you know we say fears and feeling and somebody said to me one day where do you feel that I'm like, Huh they got like like fear It's a feeling you feel it somewhere in your body it's like what are we talking about here that was a gigantic insight for me was that you actually feel like physically kinesthetically. Feel your feelings, like no matter what they are. If you love somebody, there's some part of your body that you feel it in. If you have fear of x, there's some part of your body that you feel that particular feeling. We use these two words interchangeably. One might be called emotions. And the other one feeling we call emotions feelings, which is the source of the confusion.
So if you say, Oh, I have the emotion of fear, a fear of what? Oh, fear, speeding tickets? Yeah, I feel that in one place. I have the emotion of fear of public speaking somewhere else. And once you start to identify that
Changes radically because it just identifying it more as a physical sensation, rather than this difficult to nail down emotions just pervading their bodies. I mean, I yeah, I would say it differently, but you're on track, okay? It's the, it's the distinction that, a, an emotion. So emotion is something you experience in your mind, the feeling is something you experience in your body. Now, we conflate those two, because we call emotions feelings, also. But if you separate those two things, then oh, that feeling that's in your mind that emotion, you know, people say, well, it's in my heart, a little aware of, it's got, you know, wherever you got is fine. You know, if you if you think, you know, people say we think with our heart, those are actually a separate kind of thoughts. So, that's the one we call emotions.
But there's always a feeling like like, Oh, I just cut myself you know how that feels. Or you just beat yourself in the chest. You know how that feels. Well, those things you call
Emotions are also associated with physical aspects in your body and when you start to identify those you get a lot more control over them this objective outlook that you have when it comes to your thoughts and feelings I I've heard similar thoughts before but it typically comes from someone who's done a lot of meditation Do you meditate I have been meditating for 28 years but I never thought that that was why
I've also studied neuro linguistic programming which is which is a powerful technology I've heard about that and it seems like a bit of a controversial subject is kind of highly controversial it's easy to say oh that's snake oil right? Oh it's highly controversial it's not snake oil so give us the rundown what is NLP so all right. I'm going to give you like the chapter and verse so neuro linguistic programming or NLP is
it's a set of strategies. So there's no one core technology but it's
That of strategies that had to that have to do with how you represent things in your mind. So the thing I just shared with you is a perfect example, which is what used to happen is I had this physical feeling, which for me was in my gut, I wanted to throw up, I had this non stop feeling of wanting to throw up and to the point where I could not eat food. And I labeled that as terror of speaking. So I represented it in my minus terror. Well, if you label a physical feeling that you have as Tara guess what happens you're freaking terrified. Yeah, right. It's not that I have terror and then I feel it in my gut. It's I had this feeling in my gut and then I was terrified now what is terror? What is terrified What is that thing so I now took this fiscal feeling I had and gave it a new name and the terror went away. Oh, that's NLP um. And so and that's NLP at its absolute
Core. So neuro linguistic programming is the study and science and suite of tools to manipulate how you represent things to yourself in your mind. So if you just say, I'm terrified and you don't go any further, you've got terror. But if you look at it, you say, this is Tara, where does it occur in my body? And what is show up, like, invested have a color and am I present to myself in an image with it? Or is it something that I'm detached from you know, and now you can manipulate they call them some modalities. This is old NLP stuff, by the way, it's old school, but they call the cheese think sub modalities. What What does it look like? What pictures? Is it dark, is it. Denver's it bright? Is it loud? Is it colorful? Is it moving? Is it still? Do I see myself in the image or am I looking at or am I in it looking outside of it. Each of these sub modalities which is what those things are called are things you can manipulate. Let's say you are you have a fear of what something
You're afraid of. Um, that's good question. I can be a little bit afraid of committing to things sometimes. So, okay, that's pretty vague, but let's use it. Let's go for it. Like, for example, I mean, this is not so something she got. But like, the idea of getting a tattoo is absolutely terrifying to me. The idea of perhaps getting married or buying a house makes me feel incredibly uneasy, just because I feel like I am relinquishing a level of freedom. Okay, so I'll give you an LP tip, which is that
commitment is it's an abstraction, there is no thing that you can point to in the world called commitment. commitment is a way you think about things. But committing to a tattoo is one kind of thing and it's very different from committing to a long term relationship or committing to a mortgage. And we could argue the similarities of those but I couldn't cure you have a fear of commitment in general, but I could get you want it. I could get you to watch habitat. Let's do it.
How do I want that too? Well, okay, so you want to you want to have a tattoo? No, I don't want then let's not do that. Because seriously, you'll end up getting a tattoo let's do what the house because I do want to house but it's a little scary alright so let's talk about talking about so so just for just from the standpoint of understanding and I'll pay at least at this level that your thoughts about committing to a house are not the same as your thoughts about committing to a tattoo they're just this isn't the same thing so if we want if you said I'm afraid of buying a house and I really want to have a house so help me get over my fear of having a house that we could talk about. But that's not the same as getting over your fear of having a girlfriend. Yeah, right. It's not the same at all. It's not the same as your fear of having children. So so you So in other words, specificity matters. So this is it to this is a world class tip for anybody doing anything your thoughts and feelings about a thing or not?
abstractions, and to the degree that you deal with them as abstractions, it's really hard to deal with them. The degree that you deal with them as something specific. You cannot take action about them. And that changes your whole life right there. See, if you walk around saying I have a commandment and you believe that then anything that shows up like commandment is gonna be worrisome falls under that umbrella. And you go, hi. Yeah, I can't really make commitment and you're like, you've just met the most wonderful woman who you're ever going to meet in your entire life. And she's like, Dude, what is your problem? And you go, I have a fear of commitment. It's like, grow the up. Right? That's because that's not even a thing. But if you say, Oh, I have a I have a fear of being in a long term Russia like, Oh, okay. Now we can do something to talk about this. We can talk about that. So let's say you have a fear of buying a house.
Okay. Do you have a Is there a particular aspect of this that you have a fear of
Basically this feeling that I'm going to be stuck in one particular location for the rest of my life, I'm not going to be able to pivot. I'm not going to be able to make decisions freely in the future. I like this feeling I currently have where and and this happens because we're in Thailand right now, I woke up and I said, I'm going to Thailand. And I did it because I didn't have any constraints. Right? Okay. So once again, to say I have a fear of buying a house to me misses the mark. So what it may be is that you have a fear of being pinned down. It may be that you have a fear of you want to be able to make decisions on the spur of the moment. Maybe you have a fear which I would consider justifiable of being stuck in the same place for the rest of your life. Each of those has to be dealt with because there is no such thing in your brand. There's no such thing in human development, which is fear of buying a house Yeah, just fear snakes. You know, there's fear of being stuck in one place for the rest of your life. That's a much more specific way of describing
Actually, so now we can talk about that. And, and so that we can start to say, Well, what happens when you think about being stuck in one place, I think a stagnation, I think of the people I know from high school or wherever, that stay in the same place forever, and they never grow.
Okay. So do you have fear of being like those people in high school? Absolutely. But what's gives you about that? Well, I,
I just have a general fear of stagnation. I think it really I've always had this, but it really started when I had my first internship kind of in the corporate world. And I started working with people who were older because, you know, I know young people where I can see that they're headed down the road of stagnation, and I can see that they're headed down, you know,
the path of a slow death, but I have not seen the end result of that because it's still young and they're still partying or whatever, and it's still kind of looks like a fun time. But when I got to this particular job, I worked with these people who were 4050
They were divorced. They complained all the time. They complained about their ex wives to complain about their children who don't like them. They complain about their lack of money. And what really got me was there was no spark in their eyes. And when I looked in their eyes, it looked like it was this glazed donut, it did not look like they were open to the idea of opportunity it did not look like they were open to the idea of growth and education. And if you ask me once you get that feeling and and it's not like this is binary it's not like you have the spark or you don't but once you get that glaze in your eyes, you're as good as dead Alright, so I'm going to stop here. So we're going to sidebar and then we're going to stop this part of the conversation and and here's why.
What we're taught what we all of a sudden. So look, I want you to notice something that's interesting. So we started by talking about fear of commitment we then segue to or we chunk down and we got to fear of commitment of buying a house we then
revealed what's really going on, which has nothing to do with buying a house in it has to do with stagnation and leading a boring, unchanging existence. Which, by the way, has nothing to do with having a mortgage. So
seven I we can talk about this offline. It's interesting how that happen, though. But I wanted to point that out to you, because there's something you can use there. There's something really profound that that anybody is listening to us can use, which is that when you see yourself behaving in a certain way, and you say, Wow, yeah, fear of commitment, it's like grow up that's not a thing without you may have a fear of being with the wrong partner for the rest of your life. Which by the way, it's a legitimate fear, but even that may not be the the most important layer and the idea is to keep peeling back or what's that mean to you? What's that mean to you? What's the
about what's going on there. This is how you get to the place where we can actually do some change work. We're not even close to it right? So we could keep peeling back this onion. So just to net this out, see so NLP is the science of how you represent things to yourself and getting to the point where you actually have a clear representation and then doing something with that representation. So it's like what you want instead of like, what you don't want. That's what this thing's about.
That said, it takes some doing sometimes if we did something really simple like a fear of a tattoo even that would have revealed layers usually would have like, why would you be afraid of that fear of snakes is something entirely different. That's like a fear of snakes, you know, standing as stage that's like a fear of getting on stage it seems like there'd be something deeper to the fear of getting on stage like makes that a bit approval at all. I think you don't want wired into human beings.
I actually believe that because it's so prevalent
Well most people are not afraid of getting a mortgage yeah um but most people are afraid of getting on stage most people are I say most people like that might be you but the point is this it's like you you don't start trying to make change with yourself and this goes this has nothing to do with NLP now this has to do with you know what my favorite subject is which is what you have to do to be your best entrepreneur and and have that be an awesome life for yourself
but you everything that you say as a stop the real question is to dig in and say well why is that a stop what is that a stop to what's happening here what's going on and to start to reveal for yourself what you're actually dealing with because at the surface level it's usually not true it's just a generalization there's a thing called the nominal ization
Love is an organization Love is a name we give to something that we can't explain and if you if you have
A man and a woman. And she says, You don't love me.
And he says, you know, love me.
And what she means is you don't buy me flowers often enough. What he means is that we don't have the way I want it. And they, they think they're like speaking the same language or not, you know, so she says, she says, I, you don't love me,
and she goes out and get some flowers. And he's like, What am I supposed to do speaking on language, you know, plan and on the other hand, she says, You don't love me and he drags her into the bedroom. And she's like, that's not what I was thinking about. So the point being that so love is just a nominal stations, just a name that we give to something. And the problem is, when you deal in nominal stations, especially with yourself, then you think you're thinking about one thing when you really nowhere near that. So there's no way there's no way for you to get the level of satisfaction that you want, because you're dealing with abstractions when you
Go from abstractions to specificity, then you can have the specifics of what you want. And we talked about this in goal setting all the time. People say, I want more money. So how much do you want? I want a lot of it. I want a lot more. Well, is that a lot more? Is it 1000? Is it a million? Is it a billion? Like, how much is it
the route to happy this? The Dalai Lama says that the road to happiness is one thing what you have, which is, which is pretty interesting. And from a Buddhist perspective, that's all fine. Well, and good. I think that the route to happiness is knowing what you want, and then figuring out how to get it.
What is the key to figuring out what is going to make you most happy. This is something that I've been juggling with lately, because, you know, my entire life I've kind of been taught Well, go to high school, go to college, go get a job and try to make the most money that you possibly can and money. I mean, people will tell you money doesn't make you happy to a certain capacity money will bring you happiness.
Money will particularly give you freedom. If you have money, you have freedom, and you have time. That's the way I see it. Money. You know, I can argue pretty well that the car and the laptop, things like that, probably I'm bringing lasting happiness. But you know, money for me if you gave me $3 million, and it allowed me to retire at the age of 25, I can pursue my passion, whatever it is that I want to do, because I have that freedom for money. But lately
kind of been juggling this idea of, well, what is legitimately going to make me the most happy because I need to set that goal before I achieve it. Right? And so is it money am I going to be happier pursuing my passion and not making very much money from that? is it helping people? Is it a, you know, taking my meditation to a level of achieving mindfulness when I can just become the most happy looking at a single flower? What what is going to give me the most happiness? How do you recommend somebody finds that answer? So
So there's there's so many pieces to that question. I want to go right at one of them, which is the big entrepreneurial question, which is why do you assume there's a dichotomy between pursuing your passion and having the money that you want? This is kind of based on the premise that your passion is much less marketable than something that makes money, right. But why would you assume that
I would argue that most of the time it's true, well, generally, why? What's your passion?
My passion is speaking and communicating and developing myself. And recently I've discovered helping other people develop themselves in and discover just the depth of their potential. So helping people develop their depth of their potential,
which is incredibly vague. I know that's a very right but let's just leave stay with that. Just for a minute. You can make tons of money doing that look at Tony Robbins.
realized that as a perfect example recently realized that Yeah, so there is no in built dichotomy between pursuing your passion and making money not but you have to admit. So right now I'm also looking down the barrel of a job with Microsoft. As a software engineer, that probably won't make you happy. Exactly. But you have to men if we're talking about what's good, it may you're raising money. Yeah, it's gonna make me generate some cash. So
all things being equal,
it's probably better to have more money
that said, having more bunny will absolutely not buy you happiness in and of itself, unless being rich is the thing that will make you happy, right? I mean, that's I'm saying something which is fairly basic, which is that it'd be useful for you to understand what drives your version of happiness and what it is you want to pursue in life. Because the truth is, if you would like to if
What did you say? If you said that you could be mindful, looking at flowers all the time? And that would genuinely have you be fulfilled inside of your life? See, I actually think the question is probably what's off base? Because I don't think happiness isn't and is an end goal. I think happiness is a byproduct of fulfilling your purpose.
And I don't think there's any really easy answer to say I actually it says, This is my spiritual it's coming out. I believe that your purpose is actually something that's defined by your soul which is fundamentally unknowable to you as a human being, and that you get lucky when you find your life's purpose that there's no that there are processes and you know, you can go to any one of a number of best selling self development authors and they'll give you their way of finding a process you know, finding your purpose and I say you find your purpose when you get lucky and you stumble upon it or it comes up
condo in the middle of the night, or in a bout of indigestion, or maybe when you're in some ecstatic situation, or swimming out in the middle of the ocean, or any one of a number of things that doesn't have your conscious mind focusing on it, and it comes to you in a flash of insight, and then, you know,
so so are you. So there's a way to deal with that, which is to say, you know, you step in the hopper and you say, okay, so other than conscious mind, which is one of the things I call my unconscious mind or spirit, which is another one of those things that I referred to, and you say, spirit helped me out here.
Would you please tell me what my purpose is? And tell me soon because I really want to know it started right. I'd like to get started. Uh, so please, I'm now so that's the first part is you ask. So you asked and asked everyone. You know, people don't even get to that stage well, but that's a good place to start. So since we're giving directions Yeah. So and it doesn't matter whether
You call that thing God and God is a fine thing to call it or whether you call it Buddha or whether you call it Jesus or whether you call it spirit or whether you call it my higher self or whether you call it collective unconscious helped me out here Call it whatever you want to call it. And so I'm I'm saying that because I don't care what your belief systems are, as long as you believe that there are things outside of yourself and even people who are like, you know, the Richard Dawkins Selfish Gene kind of people, even those people do believe that they haven't other than conscious mind, I think so. Ask your other than conscious mind. Ask your higher self is a pretty non spiritual point of view.
So first you got to ask you say I really need to know what my purposes Please tell me and please tell me soon. And oh, by the way, when you tell me Don't be vague about it, be specific and make it clear so even I can understand that last part is very important. Okay, good. So that's number one. Number two is he got a list
You've got to be willing to have your mind quiet enough so that that voice can be heard see if your voice if your mind is filled with chatter all the time whether it's you talking to yourself or if you have the TV on like if you're one of those people watches the news a lot I have just one word for you stop
there is no upside to watching the news ever unless you're an options trader or you know commodities trader which case the news is really matters because the news moves markets so you want to know what the news is saying because you're trading but if you're not a trader if you're not a trader than you don't need the news and there's no reason to ever watched it is the reason I'm on the news thing is the news fills up space and and other forms of automatic entertainment. Fill up all the empty space in your mind. So either you fill it up with what's going on in your brain or you're filling it up with some other stuff. Stop.
That stop listening to music 24 by seven, stop doing all those things that fill up your mind. create some space in your mind. I mentioned a whole bunch of things that happened. Like when you're in some kind of or central ecstasy. Or maybe you're swimming out in the ocean. Or if you're a runner, I I happen to get ideas while I'm lifting weights. People get ideas in the shower, because it's relaxing. All those things with take your mind off of your mind, create enough silence for
wherever ideas come from, to come in.
So ask for what you want. And I just told you what to ask for. Ask so that it be given to you in a way that's clear and understandable by you. And then create some space for that, you know, you've talked about meditation a few times seven, I just want to, I'm going to be on it about meditation for a minute
mindfulness meditation, right. I'm a meditator and I'm the of the kind of meditation
I also distinguish between meditation and concentration. And to me concentration is when I focus my mind on a particular issue. So I might meditate on a problem. I don't consider that meditation I consider that concentration but I still use the word meditate. I consider meditation be be as being the thing that empties my mind and create silence. The problem with mindfulness meditation is its as it's taught, at least in the West, is it's all about like putting your mind on the everyday things I call mindfulness doing what you're doing when you're doing it. So in other words, when I wash the dishes, I wash the freakin dishes, my dishes, I wash my dishes by hand, I have a dishwasher. I don't use it. I wash the dishes by hand because I consider it that's my mindfulness meditation. I watched it I don't listen to music, got to talk to people. I don't do anything. I do the freakin dishes. I try to drive when I'm driving my car with
is a really interesting experience because at least in America, we're like, do like 76 different things. While we're driving there were talking on the phone. We're listening to radio. We're eating. We're drinking coffee. We're likely someone listening. This podcast is doing all drive. Yeah, like you're doing it. Stop that. Don't do that. Try it. Just try this drive while you're driving. It's really hard. But it's amazing to do drive while you're driving. So mindfulness is doing what you're doing when you're doing and a lot of people they have like mantras. So they left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot, left foot, right,
but this is great stuff and it's great if you have a DD and it's great for all sorts of things. It's not meditation, It empties your mind because now you've got your own voice in there going left foot, right foot, left foot, right,
but I don't want my freakin voice going. Left foot right foot in my head. I want nothing.
I want that emptiness. I want to be able to hear what goes on inside my eardrums.
I want to be able to heal hear my heartbeat
I want to be able to experience nothing the degree to which I can experience nothing is space that I create for what I call God to talk to me
God talks to me a lot of people get upset when I say that they go that doesn't talk to me I say to ask got stuck here and they go no like one shot oh but then you have to listen you don't ask the answer is always no right you know so you know do you want spirits talk to you ask spirit doesn't talk to me ask and then create some silence so that you can hear what's being said because there's also stuff being said so
if you want to discover your purpose there's all sorts of exercises you go to the bookstore or you go to Amazon or wherever you buy your books and you can buy books and you know people like jack Canfield will sell or Tony Robbins will sell you processes on how to find your purpose and and they're useful as inquiries. Absolutely.
useful as inquiries,
but if you want the shortcut then ask spirit to and and if you don't like the idea of spirit you know ask your higher self ask your unconscious mind ask the uni and unconscious to give you the answer and then create some space to hear it. You know it's funny is when you first started describing how to find your purpose and have yet to ask you have to listen initially I was actually going to disagree with you because the advice that I have given to other people is that if you don't know what your purpose in life is, your purpose in life is to find your purpose in life. And that's how bad and so what I mean by that is whatever level of aggression that you would take towards your purpose in life, however much however many hours you would take towards that if you knew it was deliberate, you intend to be take that many hours and put it towards trying new things. That's what I usually tell people that's how bad and so I was. I was going to disagree with you, but then he started telling me your experience of finding your purpose.
Then I thought to how I found what I currently believed to be my purpose. And it fit exactly into the framework of what you just described. And that it came in a moment of complete silence. And it's funny because I was following and you were seeking your purpose. Right? Exactly. Oh, I mean, yeah, that's kind of a little existential quarter life crisis I've been going through for the past several years is, you know, what is the purpose because every single and I'm a for self help books. And every single one of them the common thread between all of them if I were to sum up every single self help book in the world, two steps, find what your purposes and develop that purpose to the point where it's absolutely world class that's, that's that's basically what they say. And in every book and so I've always had this pervasive feeling of I can do the second step I promised I can hit the second step just helped me with the first step I just need to know what it is and I can go do that thing and it just absolute drove me crazy. And so I I took that approach of okay i need to do this I need to I need to i thought was acting for a while. I just did acting and
It was a jujitsu and then it was all these different things. And then eventually it came to me in a moment of silence. And I thought would come to me and maybe try a new hobby, but honestly, it didn't. So all that other stuff that I'm going to try this, I'm going to try that. That's a great thing to do with your time that's called experiencing life. It's basically like, awesome, not so much the way to find your purpose. Because what is it? It's just this random popery. That's just as buffet of different experiences. It's like, if you're trying to find out which food you like the best, then it would be great because you go to the buffet go to Las Vegas, and they have like, bigger face anywhere else in the world. And you know, there might be like 26 miles of buffets stuff and it's like just categories of food that you didn't even know or categories and you could try every single one of them and then maybe you'll find one except the problem is that you will probably get filled up on the lobster or pick whatever thing you know you like the best you'll get filled up on that.
Then you'll never get the thing which is your purpose because you got stuck doing jujitsu, you say, I purposes? jujitsu. I can guarantee you. Your purpose is not jujitsu, I can guarantee that. Why can you guarantee that? Because the number of people on the planet whose purposes, jujitsu is small and statistically is second to be your purpose it could be cool it could be fun It could be something you want to do. It could be a hobby that lights you up and enlivens your life and gives you some self defense. Maybe keeps you fit keeps your mind trap, awesome day. It's probably not your purpose, just probably, statistically speaking, statistically speaking,
nor Are any of those other things. So your purpose see again, this is my belief system and I don't expect you to share it but I'll to talk to them. I'm the one who's doing the talking. I'll share it. So my belief is that your soul I believe in salt and I believe a soul is
That the soul is the guy, the entity and you happen to be a meat puppet. You know, you're a human being, which is like this body that evolved somehow from something. And that souls figured out that, oh, that body that was be good to have a physical experience inside of so that you are a soul who happens to have a human body for the time being. And then at the point that your human body gets old and Roddy and it dies your soul moves on which is why it's not like that big stressful thing Okay,
that said there's no way that you can sample enough stuff to have your soul go that's not that's not for me, right? Like it's not going to work. So what instead is you have to get in communication with your soul somehow and that's where the quiet and the stillness comes from.
And then whatever it is, that speaks for your soul whispers in your ear and now the human being gets clue then and goes oh.
Now I know what to do. Now,
the tricky part is, does that make you money or not? Because in the 3d world, like where we are now, you know, whether we're in Thailand or whether in San Diego or anywhere else,
you do need some money. Now, some of us need a lot more money than others. And then the question is, will is the thing which I am passionate about my purpose? Is that something that can make money? Well, so there's a simple tip. And the simple tip is figure out how to serve people with what you want to do, right? See the value the money, the real juice doesn't necessarily unless you're going to be a monk, right? So much and even monks are serving the greater good there are people who only want to serve themselves. It's like, okay, fine, whatever. These are not my people. There's not two people. I want to talk to people I want to talk to figure out that if they create value by serving others, and you figure out how to serve others along the lines of your passion and purpose and that turns
into money. And if you want more money, you figure out how to serve more people at higher and higher levels. And you know, Mother Teresa didn't make a whole batch of money that was hers, but she sure had it at her disposal. Oh, how interesting. You know, there's a lot of yogic saints and oh, like a lot of Christians, you know, and a lot of people who do nonprofit work and all this sort of stuff, as long as they're serving a lot of people. They may not have big bank accounts, but they certainly have assets at their disposal. And yes, you could make up counter examples. I'm not interested. I'm trying to give you stuff that works. So remember, if you want to always find the counter example that's probably not a profitable way to use your time if you're looking for some answers that you could run with that are practical and say, okay, figure out what your purpose and passion is going to be in us, the discovery process that I just shared with you
When you figure that out and say what can I do with this thing? Now they say to do what you love and the money will follow. This is categorically not true.
It might be true but there's no reason why that's true. On the other hand, if you figure out what you love and then figure out a way to serve a lot of people and create a lot of value with it yeah then that the money will follow so that's a simple way to not have this be duality for you again I like Mother Teresa as an example because she did not personally live with a lot of personal cash flow but she had assets at her disposal she had tons of freedom she traveled the world she had massive influence she flew on you know whatever What else do on money for Mother Teresa is the ultimate entrepreneur me but serious decisions question like what do you want all that money for shows all those things right? So I'm just saying that there's did the answers aren't
not fix. So the way you described discovering your purpose you almost described it like a Satori experience. Like this massive aha moment and that's it. Um.
But the question I was going to ask is How do you know let's say you have something you think is your purpose I don't know if that's really your purpose because I went through quite a few things were pretty gosh darn convinced now this is my purpose. Then I look back and what the reason I was complaining in my mind because I thought it was my purpose for selfish reasons. For example,
I wanted to be an actor for quite a long time and eventually I realized you know it's it's not genuinely acting that I like I think it's more like the attention and I think it's more than being in the spotlight and things like that and it sucked it really sucked to realize that because then where my purpose go, but at least I did realize that so let's say I think I wanted to act i think when I did see it, you here Yes. How did you know it wasn't um,
I wish I could give you some big, profound moment I had, but it was just kind of in silence that I realized is that is it? Am I really, really doing this for acting? And in fact, the reason one question I asked myself is, if I go through my life acting full time, and I never reach a massive paradigm of success and acting because I had blind faith in my abilities as an actor, like, I can do it, I can do it. And so it's kind of potentially deluding myself even though I'm just kind of optimistic and confident. But I asked myself if I just never reach a high level of acting success. And I'm just kind of a low level actor, but I'm doing what I love. Am I going to be happy? Probably not. Honestly, probably not. If I just stay, I end up having to be like a theatre teacher or something like that. That's not gonna give me happiness. And then I thought, okay, that is a sign in the right direction. That's a sign that acting itself for its own sake probably is not what I'm put on this earth to do. Well, I would say that this distinction between myself
purposes to become a great actor, versus my purpose is to become an acting teacher
who act on the side. That would not be the same thing. Yeah. Now, if you said my purpose is to model the human condition in such a way that people have revelations, and the way I'm going to do that is I'm going to become a theater actor. And,
and I'm going to dive so deeply into the core of my characters, that when I show up, they're going to have a Satori moment. That would have probably been a different way to look at it. It's a much more specific Well, it's I like it, but it's really different. Right? So I mean, I hate to put it this way.
Um, I think that there are people who don't actually have a purpose in life and never will, um, no, no, it's not harsh. It's just not how their lives are wired. Most people aren't asking the question
they simply aren't, you know, you can't answer the questions you're not asking so.
So if you don't care about such things as purpose, and we don't have to worry about it, you just gonna do what you do. And you're gonna I mean, I know I can't tell you how many people I've met ago. Well, all my purpose is to raise great children. Like, really? That's like the best you can do. Um, I don't think that's much of a purpose. I think that's like a default answer when you didn't really want to do the work.
And I think going back to what you're saying about By the way, I can see a counterexample in my mind, where a soul comes to planet earth, to have children to experience what that's like, for some reason. So that's kind of what I was gonna say you're saying, statistically speaking, jujitsu is probably not your purpose. But there are some people on this earth where it is but there are teachers Yeah, there are people who there are a lot I mean, that's a big purpose for people is teaching. You know, if I were to say, if you said Well, okay, let me What's your purpose? I'd say, Well, my purpose is to help other entrepreneurs be successful in that I become successful.
To the degree that I help other entrepreneurs become successful, and it has been true for debate for me for a long time, it showed up in one of those moments and I it hit me over the head like a ton of bricks and every single thing that I've done not every single night, most of the things that I've done for the past 17 years have been one variation or another on that theme. Can I ask how old were you when you discovered that this was your purpose?
Approximately?. No, I'm working it out. 3434. That's pretty good. I've always had I thought I was supposed to be an artist. Yeah, but how did you discover that wasn't your purpose?
I it just wasn't just that that's kind of what I tell people to act things like it's just kind of was it just kind of is and I mean look, if if it's kind of like love You know, if you go I don't think I'm in love. You're not you're not you know, they say if
You have to ask, it's not you. Well, it's sort of like that I, you know, and I don't, this is not to be flipped or vague or, or hopeless, or anything else, which is that and by the way, I don't think this be this purpose thing is to be on the call.
I do think the passion thing is to be on the call. And I'll tell you what, I think the differences the purpose is the description of what the thing gets. The passion is the energy that comes from it, the energy is the be all and end all. And so what this tells me see, you can get it up for a lot of different things. And you can you can raise your energy to world transforming levels through a lot of different things which says to me that there's not one thing that's going to do it for you. And over the course of your lifetime. It may be several different things. And at any moment in time, there may be several different things. The real value here is to say, what can I get it up for every single day or at least most
days to be realistic about it, you know, and that's the thing that we're calling purpose. So the articulation of that, you know, it comes in when it comes in. And it may be that
this is scary. You may really be rocking your purpose. You may have discovered it when you were 34 years old and done it for 20 years. And then one day you wake up and you go,
Oh,, this isn't it anymore. It's not that it's not it. And it never was. It's that this isn't it. And the more things change
for for whom people there are people for whom things don't change, they're not really interesting people don't hang around with
is that will stagnate and that I'm scared of those people stagnate and you don't want to be hanging around people for whom things never change. So you may have several purposes throughout your life. You may have several things about what you're passionate in your life. You know, I am wildly passionate about me.
Music and I'm a musician and it is absolutely not my purpose to be a musician. I am wildly passionate about art and I make art and it is not my purpose in life to make art although I don't know maybe this on a good day,
you know, and, and my fantasy right now is to travel around the world making art, which is what I'm doing these past four weeks. So it's okay for you like right now, right? Today if you're asking the question, How do I discover my purpose? It's probably because you have not yet found the thing that makes you really be passionate. You haven't found that battery which is a tremendous source of energy, which will fuel Oh, that thing we were talking about before making money, right? It sucks to wake up and say, I gotta go do this thing to make money that I don't love. That's a sucky life. You want another formula for a life well lived. Find something that you can get it up for every day. Do it use that to earn the resources that you want to have?
exploit in your life and exploit them and stop complaining about it. That's fantastic advice. And man, it's a bummer because it can be hard to find your purpose. But when you do, or at least when you think you do, there is no better feeling that I i've ever come across no meal, no. No Nothing can even come close to that feeling of discovering your purpose and and going and doing it. And it's amazing, at least in my experience, how much it just completely flips your brain on an axis. When I discovered that I wanted to do this podcast and everything is going to come after this podcast.
It was crazy. It's literally I stopped being hoarding It's crazy. I used to I used to want to that's really every Okay, that's a bit of exaggeration. But before this, all I want to do is I want to find cool girls and then have like that. That was great. That's that was my main fun thing to do. And then I start doing this podcast and I would just go a week and I wouldn't even think about like talking to girls or going on a date. I wouldn't.
Even I would like stop thinking about food I will get so zoned in on it and it sounds crazy I sound psychotic I know but no but it's a really good tip
it's a really good tip that you know you're onto something when all the other things that you were filling space with become less important
I'm not saying you were filling space with having i was i think that that's a core to humanity and you can be filling space
and you can be filling space with religion spirituality you can previous filling space with eating you can be filling space with anything and there is a distinction between know I'm living my life or I'm killing time and when you find that thing, which is really you at your heart at your core, then you stop trying to kill time
period. That's pretty neat.
That's awesome. So we you know, we never got to all the answers to
all of life's issues here, but these are some of the big ones. These are some really good ones. Yes, I'm gonna Can I pivot a little bit? I ask you a business question. Because this is actually is a selfish question because it's something I've been dealing with in my business lately. How do you discover and carve out your niche and whatever it is you're doing. So it could be one of those passion callings. And that would be lovely. Or it can be just pick. So let me let me give you an example with with this particular podcast right now, the way that I'm marketing This podcast is that it is a self development podcast. I'm trying to get some of that today. Yeah, I'm trying to be careful about you know who I market to. I'm trying to nice that down and maybe where I market it and how our marketing to people who swear Yeah, so we've actually cut out a whole set Exactly. And quite frankly, I mean, I'm trying to market to young people. So if anything that's helpful as long as you don't overdo it, but if we're talking about the content, to be honest, I am having a difficult time kneeling down because the way I described the
podcast currently is that I want to describe a life of fulfillment. I want to break down the criteria that lead to that life of fulfillment. Okay. The five criteria currently being purpose, health, wealth, relationships and mindfulness. So we've covered a few of those. Exactly. And you've done an amazing job talking about them. That's why it's been such a great podcast. And so Goal number one is to break down what leads to a fulfilling life goal setting to begin with, and then to find experts to speak with conviction on each one of those areas. Okay, and to be completely honest with you, I am interested in finding out how to lead a life of fulfillment. I'm not so interested in health that I want to become the health guy I'm not so interested in relationships that I become the relationships guy but I feel like I'm spreading myself incredibly thin by saying hey, look, I cover all of these areas What do you agree or disagree i would
i would have to depend on what your objectives are. So
if you want to become the number one podcast in
Going to become the number one podcast in a thing, then you really need to narrow your niche down
way, way, way down.
On the other hand, if you want to become, let's say, What's Tim Ferriss niche? That's a very, very good question. He markets himself as the human guinea pig, and it's not an it. Yeah, exactly. And it's funny because I look at my ramblings, her Tim Ferriss, is my idol. When it comes to podcasting, Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan are probably my two idols and I was asked myself this question the other day of what the is Tim Ferriss niche and talk show host. I couldn't necessarily come to a good conclusion. He experiments with things constantly and he's always trying to optimize his life and his habits. And he presents himself in a particular manner that people can attach himself attach themselves to his personality. And then there's also the aspect of to be fair he did Nisha down and is with the books that he wrote before he did the podcast so he reached down and then
branched out, but you're right brand. Yeah, exactly. So he is a brand driven podcast that he's like a lifestyle guy. He's a brand driven lifestyle guy. So like, what would you say Oprah's Nisha?
That's a good question ran Driven Life. Yeah, with with the you know a whole dose of sappiness I know I shouldn't say bad things about opportunities, pretty awesome.
So those are brands. But then you get a guy like, I don't know, Ben Greenfield who's not a big brand. He, I mean, he's getting there. But Ben Greenfield is a fitness guy, and he's a fitness guy
like with real science, and he does a lot of personal science the same way, Tim Ferriss says, but he's got a lot more science behind them some, okay. And then you get like, then you get podcasts that are all about, like Amy Porterfield, for instance, who is a social media guru and so she's only looking at what
Like social media does your stuff is so weird right if you say that no my my podcast is gonna be about it's going to be a lifestyle blog guests and it's gonna be the five components of how 20 somethings can live a life of fulfillment
okay you have to brand that so it's not so much the Nisha is the brand right you could say well no should I be better off we're only going to focus on health and we're going to focus on health and we're not only it's not gonna be helped it's gonna be a fitness and it's going to be out about slow slow super slow rep fitness like okay like who cares it's a little more niche down and he it's a little niche you know but know that one guy that's really the slim super slow real we say the word nice but it's also net right it's like you can't say Nietzsche I could sounds kind of a could say Nietzsche, but then it's still a niche yeah um.
Like I don't think there's an issue here you can brand if you're a good Branding Guy, and you can come up with some good brand statements and get people excited about your brand. Then you could talk about anything. If you look at the best talk show hosts on TV, for instance. And and I'm now in territory there and know nothing about because I never watched any of these shows once, not ever. So and I've never heard a guy speak not ever but I know they exist and what I know about the Miss it's all like their brand. And it doesn't matter who they have on or what they're talking about. Because their their profound skill is keeping the context. So if your context is a life well lived, or a life full of life fulfilled, and it's marketed to a certain sector of the market. So that's what you're teaching your nation for people who are in their middle 20s who are looking at find some of the keys to fulfillment and then
every conversation that you have maintains that context, you'll be fine. Okay, you know, if you want to, if you would be fulfilled by something much more niche II, then go more niche if you want to be fulfilled by doing this podcast, then start building the following of people who are going to be your listeners and get that big enough in their monetize them rather than monetize the price that you're selling them right I feel like in this day and age especially with you know YouTube and podcasting people have the tendency to or at least we as entrepreneurs have the opportunity to allow people to attach themselves to our personality rather than necessarily our niche whereas some people might say Holy like there's there's a podcast about slow rep range fitness that's absolutely it for me, which is good because once they see that you got them on quickly, but how long are they going to be in unless low rep range fitness you know that's about how much they care about exactly but a personality for example, I'm going to listen to Joe Rogan until the
day I die because I love Joe Rogan I didn't use hard as hell he's just never subject exactly and you know I'm
I think it can be easy to fall into that and say okay well I'm gonna do it like Joe Rogan and I thought to myself will like I'm not Joe Rogan like I can't I can't just go horizontal I feel like I have to go vertical in one particular area before going horizontal and then my friend told me Will when did Joe Rogan decide that he was Joe Rogan you know at what point is it could be the end like the original Mark me made him Joe bro yeah exactly
yeah so you're not a comedian
so it's different but we have the ability to brand now I mean look I'm not going to start naming names but there's a lot of names I could name who are people whose fame is simply they're famous for being famous they've in other words they've successfully branded themselves without having anything to brand like Paris Hilton that would she would be a good example
and and yet, she's
Actually, remarkably, and surprisingly, she's like a brilliant business. What is she really? She's like, Oh. She's really brilliant. I had no idea. Yeah, it's and she just, her whole thing is about being dumb. And it works because I believe it works because there's a lot of people. Are you telling me That's her brand? She's not actually done that she's branded herself? No. Yeah, clearly not coming off. That's hilarious. Makes a ton of money. Uh huh. And that doesn't happen a dumb people. Yeah, it really does. Um, yeah, though. She's branded being bacon. And the reason I believe that branding yourself as fake it works is there's a lot of freaking people out there and they identify
and she's turned into a healthy like eight or nine figure business so that's not bad. Yeah, that's kind of a question that I think some entrepreneurs tend to juggle with is,
should I put out this clickbait content? That's
Going to appeal to a lot of people? Or should I put out actual valuable content? It's only going to appeal to the people that want to, which is always going to be. So I'm just going to answer this question from my own spiritual beliefs, which is that you should do stuff in life, which is valuable period. Like that may not be the best business advice in the whole world. But that's not my thing. My thing is a life well lived. And no, you should do things that matter. And if your whole purpose in doing something is commerce, yeah, you're just not the kind of person I want to have a conversation 100% what habits have you noticed and entrepreneurs, you mentor as well as in yourself the tend to lead to success
more than anything? I think it's the so
I'm just checking my answer. Yes, sometimes they start to speak and I have to like, stop for a minute and verify what I'm going to say to see if I still think
It's true before I say so I just good habit to have. I just did that for a moment because I tend to lead with speaking before thinking that said, I think the number one habit is consistency. And I can validate that with a lot of examples of people who are neither created nor talented but get things done. And they get things done day in and day out, and they don't. So number one is consistency. Number two is work when you're supposed to be working.
Yeah, those two words can be hard as an entrepreneur because when he supposed to be working, is it all the time? Is it never you kind of set your own hours? No, it's when you say you're working. That's when you're in my city sign, right? So
work when you're supposed to be working
and do things consistently. People say like, what's the most important marketing skill? My answer is consistency. So
putting out like, let's say you're doing a podcast and you could do that.
Like a totally rock and podcasts once every seven weeks or you could do a totally decent podcast once a day
the guy who does it once a day and it's just kind of okay is gonna be so much more successful than the one who does it whenever even if those podcasts are like Obama's speech in 2004 right right, which made him present in 2008 like you could do with that kind of speech recently done like three of us yeah or you could have Joe Rogan who rapid fire man does like you know every single day does something of quality not of Obama 2004 quality but decent
decent so that's why I'd say consistency and then work when you're working those are the two habits the third one if I were saying this is
read widely fill your mind with your
New ideas which are not necessarily business ideas, right? I I once had this assistant who said to me, so what business books are you reading lately that you'd like to recommend? And I was like none like, What do you mean? I said, I'm not reading business books right now he says, Well, what will? What, Paul Limburg isn't that all you do? He said you know I said well he says What do you really I said I'm reading history I'm reading philosophy I'm reading neuroscience you know and I have this whole list of stuff that I'm reading and and none of it were I just bought my first business bugging ages
Yeah. Um, but however, business looking really all the time and I bought one yesterday. So you're sitting in the after we stopped talking in the cafe. A friend of mine shot me know. And he said, Go buy this. And I said, Who told you that? A friend of mine? Okay. Awesome. who happens to live in Bangkok? But that's not part of the story. I'm tempted to ask which one it is. But I don't want to be like the system. No, it's it was actually this guy named Jason flatland, I think.
That's how you say his name who's in who teaches internet marketing from a fairly distinct perspective sells low and products and sell some incredibly well and it's a book on webinars. Nice and the guy is so successful with his webinars, I figured it was worth 999 for Kindle. That's perfect. We'll see you touched on a bit. I haven't read it yet. You're going to Don't worry. Well, I also will have you on for a book report. You touched on working when you're supposed to be working and that is easier said than done, especially by far in this day and age
of all these distractions and things like that. And you know, if you go off what Cal Newport teaches is the people that are going to build this world of the people that are literally just had the skill of being able to dive into deep work if you have the skill where you can sit for five hours straight and work on what you're supposed to be working on without getting distracted that
It you're as good as president at that point. Hey, look. So I've done research on this. And I've done serious research on it by serious research. I mean, I, I did a formal study of 500 CEOs of people running one to $5 million companies. And since that which was
like 17 years ago, I have asked every single audience I've spoken with. So I have data from 10s of thousands of entrepreneurs. And the question I asked was, How much time do you spend on the average day doing work that created real financial value for your business? And I let people define that for themselves. And I let them and they would say, well, like out of how many hours and say however long you work so the answer will I'll let you guess it. First of all, let's you tell me how much time do you spend on the average workday doing work that creates
value for your essence. Oh, creates value. See that's different from what yesterday because earlier you said creates financial value I believe yeah that's what kind of value I'm talking about financial value sorry see that makes things more difficult because I've been focusing so much on the free content part of the equation lately right but we could argue that creating free content does create financial value for your business because that is the spearhead of your marketing
now I'm sitting here trying to differentiate between I can tell you very definitively how many hours I work per day on my business now I'm trying to differentiate between right but the real value and there's not real value
I would I would categorize really mainly just doing the actual podcast that that's the real value right there that that's the content creation so ideally on a good day three hours Okay, so you are way above average way
Well, that's kind of by necessity because if I do a podcast that day I'm doing a podcast that it that's what I'm doing. I'm I have to create you do one every day. I try my best so it can be hard honestly, now.
I'd say I averaged maybe two or three a week, then you should set your schedule to be two or three a week and be doing that. That would be my advice. But that said, you know, what's the average answer? It's right around to
around two hours. So I have a friend who's a pretty successful those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers. They are not lucky numbers. No, that's a point. That is my point. By the way, two hours a day is the average amount of time that the average successful so we're talking about people with multimillion dollar businesses, not billion dollar businesses, they probably don't do that much. But people with multimillion dollar businesses with six and seven figure incomes work on average, do meaningful work in their businesses about two hours a day on average, so I have a guy who I'm friendly with who was a very successful info marketer. We were talking about this one day on a tele seminar and he said, Well, 100% of my time is meaningful. I was like
Okay, you're either lying or you're the one person in the whole planet. He's like that. He said, No, I cheat. He said, I have a pretty big team. And I come in, I do my two hours. And I leave.
He says that I mean, that was his answer that cracked me up. Because he said, I don't do anything that someone on my team can do. And I don't hang around the office when I'm not doing meaningful work. So I do my two hours and go, That's hilarious. He's got life figured out. He Oh, he this guy seriously, does this this guy's got it figured out. How do you differentiate between the work that is meaningful and the work that isn't
because I sat here and you asked that question on my first my first thought was so here's an example
and you could argue with me but I'll tell you my example my exam so we can be doing this podcast and you could say you so you have to define it but you might say well doing the actual interviews that's my value creation editing them is not right about source that right
That's kind of how it goes,
you know, tweaking my website not writing betting on my time doing is writing copy. Yes. tweaking my website no
you know making sales calls. Yes making support calls No. Right. So you see these are my distinctions and I think everybody needs to distinguish these for themselves but there are things that create value in your business. And then there's everything else. You know, I spent a good part of the day yesterday making travel plans. Why because I'm traveling, you know I'm bopping around and just a lot of detail and manage I mean getting that Vietnam visa alone took me two hours so and it's a stick like three minutes but yeah, there were reasons why it did and what kind of Southeast Asia so you know, took me two hours to get my pm visa. Was that a good use of my time no
end of story didn't create money. So let's say I have somehow
managed to successfully distinguish between the two I just I wish this valuable if you work consistently two to three hours a day and let's say you bump it let's say we're gonna push the envelope for oh god if you were able to work four hours consistently day in and day out doing value creating activities you are ringing that bell like a really big way so when I said work when you're working it would be perfectly fine to say I'm gonna do my two and a half hours work a day or my three hours work a day and the rest of the time I'm going to the beach
wow okay to clear division create a clear division the challenge that I believe is and what leads to like suck Enos is to say you're working
and then be doing all the other stuff say well I put in my eight hours today and I got that webpage really smoking
yeah well whatever. Yeah. It's funny or
Talking about how you work when you're working and when he first said that had had a little feeling of pride something oh I work when I'm working I do my work when I'm working I I get into deep work and then he got more specific and he said well you have to do value creating work when you're working that the the tweaking the website and it's so funny that you use that as an example because that is a literally what I have been spending so much of my time on for the past month is just getting this website absolutely perfect. And and I've actually had thoughts while I'm doing it is
this this is not the most productive use of my time. There's got to be a better use of my time than this.
Yeah, go lining up sponsors, for instance, for your show,
huh. That's interesting. I i've been advised not to do that until I get substantial viewers well that was that may be you may not be but it's a good example.
Exactly. Yeah. I mean things marketing, probably marketing and product creation. Those are my two marketing product creation. I actually can't think
Anything that I should be doing that exists outside of that we'll see what me up was.
You know, I, I even recognize that tweaking this website probably does not provide the most value but this is something that needs to get done yeah but it shouldn't take it a month yeah yeah that's true and I was tempted out for a week but
that's a phrase well tweet per week yeah that Ryan week that's good tweaking for more than a week you're doing something else you're you're sort of them crystal if you're tweaking that much and yet here we are. Okay You got any more questions? I have one more. I was about to say. I have one final question is we're about to hit the two hour mark. And that's always my goal. If you could go back in time podcast. Yeah, listen to the song So actually, or do you slice them? Haven't you beat me to the punch so So the trick is to the people that want to listen to the to our podcast I thank you so much. That's awesome. Not everyone wants to do that. So what we do is we splice them up into sub topics. So for example, rather than saying hey, two hours with Paul
You can say Paul talks about how to discover purpose through stillness and about 10 to 15 minutes like that. And then I'll make a thumbnail for that. put that up on YouTube how to discover and also I don't have to tell you this nobody searches for podcast with blah blah blah they search how to find your purpose right. Got it and so that using SEO that will drive into there and then hopefully oh man this is cool podcast will branch out let's for two hours. So last question I want to ask you is let's say you could talk to young Paul, you can either talk to, you know young artist, Paul, but I actually want to take a little step further. Let's say you talked to Paul right when he's beginning his journey of entrepreneurship. You've already realized you don't want to be an artist. You want to be an entrepreneur talking to young Paul, what is the one piece of advice that you would give to young ball
focus on sales and marketing and most specifically, focus on getting focus on building a big audience for the thing that you want.
Do more than anything yeah and and there's a distinction and it runs counter to everything we were talking about purpose and passion before which is become passionate about something for that other people care about
it's a real you know we say oh you know like it we're back to do what you love the money will fall and it just doesn't work that way it can work that way it's not guaranteed to work that way. So find your passion find your purpose in something that creates meaning for you but that that meaning is shared with other people it's a really good place to start
yeah and the other thing you know we we covered it array so at the risk of repeating myself consistently consistency Trump's brilliance
every day. One very similar way of putting that that one of my favorite people often says Gary van and
Chuck, he says speed beats perfection. Yeah.
Um, it's different. But yeah. Yeah.
He's loud. He's very. He's allowed. You know, he thinks moving fast is is a goal in and of itself. He knows how to market himself. He got admit that he's got a good brand. Um. Yeah I can't look. I have never been able to learn anything from him like, I can't like what he says I don't find useful.
Well, you're already motivated. I think Gary van and Chuck is particularly appealing to people that are not yet motivated to get off their and do stuff. I think what you're looking for some killer content for you to say, Oh,. I didn't think of it that way. And I don't think that's really what Gary Vee is definitely there to offer. Yeah, it's it's just it's louder than I care for. Um, but that that piece about consistency. Yeah. So
I used to say effective I used to say
now I think about that a little bit differently, which is,
is it is it perfect? Or is it going to work?
That makes sense? Yeah. Because it's going to work and it's going to deliver what you want inside of the value system that you've created for yourself. That is good enough. There's somebody somebody said greatest the enemy of good. I like that one.
Yeah. And people hear it and they think you're saying the normal one which is a backwards you know, the way most people say it was good as the enemy of great but it's the greatest enemy of good greatest the enemy of getting things done. So I admit to being a lot of a perfectionist and it's like, totally in my way, the thing that you know, cuz I see the beauty and things and I'm all about having to be beautiful and everything. It's like, Yeah, it does make you money.
So if you're trying to get a message out to a big crowd it has
Gotta just keep putting a message out, you know, this consistency thing. I never understood that
a couple of years ago, let's see Van Halen. And these guys have been playing the songs that they're playing now for close to 40 years. And they were awesome. And they were inspired, and they were lit up on stage and having a blast. And, and here, these guys who are all 60 or over rocking it out, like 20 year olds, and, but very much better musicians, you know, like mind bogglingly great musicians who were clearly in a state of bliss and joy
like, holy. How did they do this? So I went home that night like gone mad at bed.
And and so I googled
How come Eddie Van Halen is such a good guitar player
The answer is that Eddie
has been playing guitar eight hours a day since he was like nine
and he still plays eight hours a day and he's been playing eight hours a day the entire time and I didn't get that when I was younger I did not get the idea that practice really made you better and that most things are amenable to practice so practice consistency yeah these are the things I would have told myself and then plant myself in front of a big crowd
Oh thanks so much for coming on hey it's been a blast appreciate it Where can we find you Where can we find your Instagram your website 10 x velocity tell us all Paul okay so this is really embarrassing I don't know how to find my Instagram except if you search on my name which is Paul Limburg l e m as in Mary B RG you can find my website the same way It's Paul Limburg calm you can find me on Facebook with slash Paul Limburg with no space between it Yeah.
You're right there I am and if the velocity 10 X program is it's off of my website which is polymers comm slash group 10 x all one word all that's it. You're a killer man all right you may not call yourself an Empire Builder but I will Why do amazing thanks for coming on we're gonna peace all right thank you for listening to the mental architect I am your host Sam CB if you enjoyed this episode go on down to iTunes and smash that review button so hard that your finger falls off
if you want to learn the secrets of the universe or if you want to watch the video version of this podcast go to CMC br e dot com
This has been your no blueprint for peak performance and as always, until next time.
Sam is an ambassador for personal growth. When Sam started to take action towards a better life, it wasn’t long before he was hooked faster than Captain Blackbeard’s left hand. Years later, Sam strives to produce change in others similar to the identity level transformation which occurred within himself. His aim is to break fulfillment down into a series of straightforward steps, and introduce it into the life of anyone who is willing to embark on the path of action, education and ownership.