The #1 Most Important Lesson for Entrepreneurs with John Ho 2018-10-20T23:54:06+00:00

Project Description

The #1 Most Important Lesson for Entrepreneurs with John Ho

John Ho is a self made entrepreneur and periscope celebrity. Incapable of having a boss, he carved his own path through a series of self created businesses. Now, he lives a location independent lifestyle in Thailand while running his businesses and coaching others to follow in his footsteps.

John offers expert insights into the finer points of entrepreneurship such as marketing and branding, as well as answering more sweeping questions such as the meaning of money and how to create work from your passion. Some interesting topics we cover include:

0:00 – Why brand authenticity matters
14:20 – The power of personal and business branding
32:37  – Risk Analysis: If it’s not a fuck yes then it’s a no.
45:37 – Marketing products through casual conversation
58:18  – Converting passion into a sustainable business
1:04:10 – The most important lesson for new entrepreneurs
1:09:57 – Entrepreneurship can be amazing. But it’s not for everyone
1:23:32 – Why trends are a red flag
1:36:10 – Having to do things you hate to become successful
1:43:34 – Money as a tool for freedom
2:00:09 – Values over goals? Bullshit

The full podcast episode:

The audio version of this podcast can be found here:

The most interesting excerpts from this podcast can be found here:

Decision Making Mentality of a Successful Entrepreneur

Open Mindedness is the Key to Success

Why Entrepreneurship is Not For Everyone


Click Here to View the Full Transcript

We've got john on the podcast, a wicked, successful entrepreneur and a bit of a social media celebrity in his own right.

We discuss primarily business and business advice on this particular episode we talked about when it's time to quit your job and do your own thing and if that path is even necessarily right for you, but what I like most about this podcast is we discuss the importance of wealth, but more importantly, the importance of having meaning fear. Well,

many people strive to be wealthy just for the sake of it, but it's not productive, need to have a greater goal in mind. So we touch on the very tangible ideas of how to become a more successful and effective entrepreneurs, the habits to employ but also the mindset and the end goals that you should have for your life and for your work.

Mental architect with Sam Sebring, no blue

Print for peak performance

be the best you can be.

So you're at you start out network marketing. He did some investment banking it seems like now for the most part, you're just a social media God is that

is that accurate? You You're the God of your own social media and You're the God of some other social media pages right I don't think anyone can call themselves God except Steve Jobs maybe a prince a lot of hats.

It's just that you know, three years ago

I mean I've been working for myself eight years ago but I think with the first time I really got interested and seriously needed to say, tell myself I need to dive into the social media part was three years ago when I talked to my friend's husband and he's in his late 40s early 50s.

And he was telling me about all these things of internet businesses, social media trends and all that. And it's not that we don't know about this, right? We all have a Facebook account, we all have an Instagram account and all that. It's just as a user, you're just being fed with whatever the platform wants to wants to show you. You don't necessarily know what's happening at the backend, you're not creating you don't know what the business models are for social media. And, and for that part, I, I got curious. And so he told me he wanted to start up a company to do something with it, which I had no idea what it was. But I said, Hey, I kind of wanted to learn more about this. So I basically offered myself to, you know,

be part of the company and say, Hey, I don't know much but I'm willing to learn I'm not asking for a big check anyway, so if you find me useful, and Anyway, you know, I met your surface and he said, Sure, you know,

so that's how company already started. Or were you guys all just kind of hanging out chicken shots tequila in the basement

no no it's more like it's more like social network event in Hong Kong pretty tame you know there's no like strippers or anything like that and for social media without stripper I know I know it's a sad gotta bring me in for some business we're very we're gonna make some changes around here

Hong Kong It was like Beijing maybe we could leave the strippers at the door but Hong Kong aggressive I think I had there you've lived there I don't know not so much about Beijing, Shanghai. If you talk about parties and all that. I think nowadays Shanghai would be 10 times Wilder though really Hong Kong obviously you need to know the places and the people in the underground scene and all that. But Hong Kong in general, like it's it's very, very tight. I know that's where all the crypto goes is to Hong Kong. That's, that's the main thing I know about it. But other than that, no,

yeah, cuz it's a little business paradise. Yeah, cuz it's kind of like an offshore place for like the Westerners to be an Asia and so there's a big financial hub, obviously with the stock market.

exchange and all that. And then you're not bound by the laws and regulations with the European laws or American laws when it comes to money transactions and all that. So I think they have their own group with investors of like traders or whatnot. And, you know, when when this whole crypto thing got

this crypto we're going to talk about No, I don't want to talk about crypto. Jesus Christ. I shouldn't have brought it up now. I've lost too much money in crypto

till you were involved in subject. I reluctantly admit that I moved on crypto and then I came crashing down just as quickly. Ladies and gentlemen don't know crypto to say one thing about crypto to my audience so they know Okay, so what should they be aware of? I was a baller for a solid month I thought I oh my god i thought i was i thought i was john whoa honestly. What john Whoa. Actually is that's what I thought I was with zero effort or work. I mean, I guess I

Research some coins for a couple weeks you know I put that in but beyond that pretty much just throwing a dart at the crypto dartboard and picking one that moons I was telling all my friends man if I get a million by graduation I'm renting a Lambo I literally I literally told them this because I thought I was headed to Emily I thought I was headed to Emily came crashing right down got I didn't lose any money though it was just a giant roller coasters came out even it's kind of like going to the casino yes you know you hit a few rolls of whatever dice game you're playing and then you feel like I'm gonna win forever except at least with the casino you know you're gambling with crypto you think you're smart think your trick you into a trick you into thinking you know analyzing all these data is your long at these moving points are like no no, no. I know my evaluation like I know when to Yeah, when people start talking about Bitcoin. I roll my eyes because you know you don't even know about these smaller anyway. Don't do crypto kids.

Or if you do do crypto safely, don't drink in crypto. That's a good one. I made a few drunken trades, which actually turned out well, but don't use me as an example. Just don't just don't do it. So social media, what? What do you guys focus on on social media right now? Because that's, that's kind of a big slice of pie. Ya know? So,

uh, myself. I myself, I have,

obviously the periscope platform. So that's my personal brand. And what I do mainly is lit by the way you periscope sauce. Have you seen myself yourself? No, no. My script and all that. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. You like it? Yeah. Okay. periscope or Twitter? sometimes I don't. I don't. I don't even watch my scopes. Because Yeah, you know how it is when you record your voice. And then you had to play and listen to it is where the headphones are so weird. You know, I have the same feeling when I do my scopes. And I have to go and watch it again. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to watch myself or Oh, see, that's me doing something stupid or said I said something that's totally random and irrelevant or if

Not factual. But I just said it. Have you improved your communication skills since you first started doing it just the way you talk, things like that? I think so. Like if I were to go back three years ago and watch my first few scopes versus Benji

it's just how I deliver the message or how I would interact with the viewers I think I have a different like mindset like at first you know when everyone were to comment to whatever they were shown over periscope

obviously you have to trolls and then you have to ignorance and then you have some sometimes you get ignorant trolls yeah and then you have ignorant trolls you have to intentional trolls and you have to ignore intros right, so there were a lot of times that you would just be very like, triggered, you know, and when you're triggered and when you can't keep your cool then you say some stupid stuff. Yeah, because you just want to yell nights on the internet forever. Because actually, it's live pretty much edit that out pretty much so. So nowadays, it's like okay, I've seen these questions before.

I know what you're trying to do here. So over experiences I yeah, I'm just not going to get, you know that bait or I know the proper way to respond to those kind of

what you call it. Yeah, inter. Yeah.

Actions response, whatever. I feel like if I started live streaming I would allow myself to get trolled way too hard. The thing is because everything's at the moment, you know, if you get if you know the questions and answers if you know if you can anticipate what kind of things they could say or or you can edit it right. The fact that you cannot edit live stream is for me the fun part of it, because what you see is what you get literally I could get right now. Yeah, and there's no way I can stop you. I know it would be trouble. Yeah, it might harm your brand. And that's why I'm taking a big risk by doing this podcast. And that's why there's so many brands who so afraid to get into the live stream game because for them, it's a big risk. Like for me, I'm a personal brand so I take the risk that I can bear and that's fine.

Right. But like I would go to brands and I would tell them guys got to look at this live stream platform. It's it's the future, right? A lot of them gets fascinated. But then once they know that this is live, and there's no control of what kind of content will be pushed out, and there's no taking back of it, then they become a little bit hesitant to be like, yeah, let me let me just like sit on this for a while and see and see how it goes. Well, it's much more legitimate and authentic when you live stream, I think. And I also think that it tends to push your envelope not even as a personal brand, but just as a human being. If you know you're alive and you're talking about let's say, social media that is going to give you the drive to know your social media, which is the other side of argument when you want to persuade people to do live streaming, because nowadays with so much information out there, and the internet authenticity is definitely a key, right? Like your brand can be as glamorous. You can spray you can spray as much money you want.

Any ad campaign, right? But people are not stupid people have been watching TV, ignorant trolls. Yeah. But those are few and far between. Yeah, but even even those, like you're talking about, maybe a smaller portion of people. It's still regional though. Like, it depends on where you're from, like, what kind of background you have, and all that. But I would say now, or 10 years ago, in the internet, people have consume enough content to kind of tell like, this is this is legit. And this is kind of like bogus, right? And so I think as the maturity level of internet users like increase there is that definitely definite need for authenticity. Because that's going to define whether you're like a trustworthy a credible source of whatever it can be. News can be a product Academy, a service, right, or it can be any opinion you say about anything versus someone that comes in and they have their own agenda and it's not really the truth.

You know, it's kind of sugar coated, you know, and, and it becomes easier to spy. Right? And, and I think if you're trying to get people to buy into your brand and authenticity is one thing that live streaming can definitely show because Because again, you cannot you can't edit this right? You carry like you're recording my voice right now if I say something stupid, you can still cut it out versus in live stream know, like, there that's there unless I delete the scope. But still, how do you develop authenticity? Is it the type of thing that just is a natural byproduct of being a personal brand and growing your business and and doing live streaming over time? Or is it something they should actually hone and develop your presence and developers communication skills? Uh, well, for me,

I think one part is not caring what people think. Ooh, that's a tough one. Yeah, yeah, but if they don't like me, john. Whoa. No, but there are there are times that I will

I would think about, okay, if I were to do this kind of scope, if I want to say this kind of things, which is the beliefs that I truly hold, then what will they think of me? But as you do more of live streaming, you realize that Well, I know authenticity is key here. And if I were to say something that I do not believe in, then I'm kind of like betraying myself and lying to others trade up and so that's not gonna work. So either you keep lying, right? sly for if you don't care about the authenticity game solution, right? You just you just you just but but lying is not easy. consistently. Lying is also state being often being authentic is hard, like,

like to sustain that lying

story forever until you finish your gig, right? That's even harder for me. So I feel like okay, what do I do here too. I just lie straight out all the time, forever to everyone I talked to or I just don't care what people think this is my way. This is my opinion. This is my brand new life.

It's great if you don't like it, that, you know, go to another place. So I pick I pick that part in the line might not even necessarily turn out. Well if you're in it for the long haul, if you start trying to pander to the audience and trying to pander to the opinions, you think they might want people man, those opinions might change, people will be able to tell like, maybe not the first couple times but you know, like, I like to believe my audience are not stupid, right? Good job guys. So I think

so. I like to think my audience are the more intelligent minds like I'm not trying to scam that. I mean, I would agree just based on the content that you put out, you're not putting out clickbait. How To Grow your. eight inches in a day. You're putting out How I wish I'd known a pill because I can sell that maybe you should. Maybe you should start line and start putting out

man like, like, like it serious, john Oh, but now you're putting out like how to be an entrepreneur, how to increase your wealth, how to build your brand, how to build your niche, the type of person that goes to Google and says how to build your niche in in business or something like that.

Yeah, they're not usually the type of person that just sits there stuff and Cheetos down their mouth just doing all day. Usually they're actually thinking and again, like you said, they're able to spot that lack of authenticity. Yeah, I'm not saying you don't need to do marketing. Obviously, there's the marketing element of everything, right? You still need to look nice. pills. Do the old switcheroo. Yes. Hey, what do you know about fulfilled by Amazon, something like anything like that, but our use that you know, or used to kill us as an example as this is what you're not supposed to do. So, you know, like,

there's still strategies within the game of, you know, marketing and sales and all that. But I'm saying do that. But don't don't betray the brand. Don't like say something totally opposite than what you would do or what you're selling because ultimately going to bite you. It is got to be pretty nice having a personal brand rather than working for a business in the sense that you can kind of pivot whatever way you want and that you are able to be authentic this this seems to be a business phenomenon that

Quite frankly is fairly recent for the past hundred years you build it maybe maybe you could have a personal brand for a bit but eventually that's going to flow around to a business yeah social media is recent and once that flowers on new business and an enterprise stakeholders and you have all this investment they have to deal with you can't necessarily be yourself all the time because the do that just gave you $10 million might not really like it yeah so you can be you so I'm doing both I'm working for a company that we are building a brand

for a very niche community on on the online world is the martial arts yes so that's Marshall tribes calm so so with that we're trying to build the most engaging and the biggest community online for martial arts and uses but martial arts specifically to only self defense and right so that's our brand now and then I have my john m holdings, right

and and ultimately working for someone else and having my own brand obviously I have more flexibility I have more liberty to do whatever I want to do whatever I want to sell, but I think

The good thing about building a brand or working for a brand is also the learning experience. Usually when you work for a company, naturally you have more resources because there's a bigger team, right? It's more organized, structured. So those are the things it's like corporate world for entrepreneurship, right? Everyone says corporate world sucks. Like millennials or younger folks, those millennials, right? They say I don't want I don't want to be in the rat race off the corporate world. Like I hate the nine to five in front of the desk thing you know, five days work thing that's probably near an entrepreneur like working 18 hours a day. Not anything easier. Yeah, it's not an F you if you have a little bit of corporate experience and then you start your entrepreneurship I would argue that's actually a better

a better way to grow I don't know like it depends for my for myself, because I've been working for 10 years before it you know, working for myself so I thought I would like to believe that that's experienced.

I can gain and I'd find that useful for me to engage with other people, at least. So this is this is one element that you definitely need to do. Like when you become your own brand, you still have to pitch to other people about your products and services right now you might be selling to like customers, individual people, and that's fine because that's very like down to earth. You're just being you and all that. What happens if you need to talk to a brand that wants to sponsor you? What happens to you want to talk to an entity that needs your product and service? Do you know the rules of engagement in the corporate world? Do you know how to engage with these corporate people? Right?

That's corporate corporate people, right? Because they have their own lingo and they have their own mentality of synergy. Yes. So and legal documents. Yeah, and, you know, like, liabilities or a good one. Yeah, right. Yeah, so contingencies if you if you haven't been in the corporate world, then you naturally don't know what's happening, how they do things, or why are they asking you these things.

So, and I find that useful. So yeah, no 100%. And I think a lot of times these, this is something that I've seen in friends that are trying to build their own thing. They get a little bit confused because they say, Oh, you know, I'm not starting a business. I'm I am john. Whoa, I'm just going to be john. Whoa. And it's like, Look, you can be john hope. But you need to realize that's a brand that that that is a business in a sense, you need to market yourself as you would accompany the name of your company is john Whoa, yeah, that that that's the main difference is rather than naming it Marshall tribes or something like that. You're giving it your own name, but you still need to have the same level of marketing behind it. Yes. I'm curious what,

what is the difference in terms of running a business in terms of marketing in terms of how you would run it between a personal brand and between a business brand? Let's say you had john Whoa, in one lifetime, and then you had Whoa, enterprises and another will be the differences in how you would run both of those things.

There should be no difference. Okay? Because your brand is your business, your business is your brand. That's what personal branding means. No, like so so I don't I've never talked too much like you know people and too many people that would say that but did you ask them why they would say oh this is not a business this is just my personal brand I think just because they want to have a fun YouTube channel and I'm not sure I feel like they haven't put much thought into it because I'm in the same campus you okay so for people who said no, this is not a business I'm just doing this as a as my own gig they're not looking into the money taxation game here they're just like you said it's a hobby yeah it's a hobby it's something fun they enjoy doing if they get money great if they don't that's fine the irony in that is most of them dream to become the next Casey nice that they dream to become the next cutie pie and they don't know how much effort sweat and tears they've actually put themselves into to become who they are. Right? So

I find it slightly hypocritical. Yeah,

sorry, guys out very much. So very much. So. Yeah. Otherwise, why would you build your channel? Why would you buy a fancy camera? Why would you? You're literally investing money. Yeah, you are thousands of dollars. And if you're putting in money, breakeven. Yeah, exactly. If you're putting the money building the platform,

like the second question that I would ask is, so what is your What is your business plan here? Like, how do you make the investment back and the investment is also the time you're spending on it? Because if you're not spending if you're saying, Oh, I'm totally enjoying this, this is this is something I love doing with passion and all that. Great. Do you have bills to pay? Yeah, you know, are you like, do you have, how many money do you have in your account? Like, do you have responsibilities like, or do you plan to have responsibilities as in, you know, how about a family? How about having a house or if you don't need a house, that's fine, but just surviving? Yeah, basic survival, right. Are you nice meeting

Least yeah something right but most of the time you see people eating like dirt cheap food and be like you know booth you know strapping and still saying they're not building a business it's like well okay that's in the right way even if you do assume their claims are legitimate that this is just their passion This is what do you want to do what I would say to them is what's your passion don't want to make this your life Why is it that you want a nine to five job that you hate over on the left and you have this badass amazing YouTube channel Instagram page whatever it is that you're doing on the right why you're trying to keep those things separate if you would actually put effort towards monetizing it then you can make that your life if maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow not even in a couple years but at some point if you keep going you'll be able to quit your job and you'll be able to support yourself is john hope periscope King or Sam CB podcast guy. whatever it is you're doing as long as you take those steps.

I think it's

It's in the assimilation of everything you're doing in life. You know, now, back in the old days, like, you know, if you're talking about the generation of our parents, the grandparents work, and life is very much separate. And you have your work life balance, you have your nine to five office. And that is like, you're just selling your time to the corporate, right? And so that's not you that's, that's just me at work. And then you come back home, you're with your family, with your friends that skew, you're chilling, you're doing your things you're going along, you're playing golf, whatever, right? I think nowadays because

lifestyle of people are also very different. Even working culture is very different, in a sense, how there's a lot of things that's kind of meshed together even when I was working in an investment bank,

which for those who don't know, should be a solid hundred hours a week, most likely. Well, the thing is when you have a Blackberry, right, we're still I'm talking about times when

blackberry still exist. I don't know if you know the pager at any point. Yes. But that was when I was in high school. But my Palm Pilot, I had one. I'm sorry, I got one. Yeah, that wasn't my college time. Just reveal how old I am. But,

uh, but the BlackBerry machine is that thing that will trap you. And

first thing you wake up in the morning is scrolling through the piles of emails, you know that you have to read, respond or delete, right? And that's also the last thing you do when you before you go to sleep. So you're not working nine to five, nine to six anymore. You're actually

being engaged with your work pretty much when you're awake, right? So that's intense.

And so now there's the struggle between like work life balance and whatnot. And I think for the newer generation who hasn't experienced that parts of the corporate life now they're trying to kind of like push back. Yeah, and that action of pushing back is kind of like telling people

This is my identity, this is my way of doing things. And it's almost like

Yeah, kind of it's a resistance, it's more like a resistance, then then understanding the benefits of both sides and kind of incorporating it because you're building your brand. Therefore it is your business. Therefore you should have some sort of working format that you're doing on a daily basis. Right. So how is it not your business? How do you how do you not have a business plan? How are you not fully engaging it? You can't tell people you have a four hour work week I should Tim Ferriss.

No, I think it's a great clickbait. Let's put it that way it is a great clickbait and I think he's obviously a very very smart guy right

but even if you read into the book which I think I might have read like parts of it he's not he's not really telling you you don't have to work most of the time basically saying is you have to work off ton at first and then

You front load that work, and then it's not as much later. Yeah, that's what he's really saying. In reality, what people are doing, or some people, they, they just perceive it as, Oh, this is this is the style, you know, this is the south, I'm not going to work more than 10 hours a week. That's what I do that yeah, that's not that's not what I want. Yeah. And also just touching on that whole blackberry thing. And what is obviously now because the blackberries or did the whole iPhone things smartphone thing is,

and again, if you're in the entrepreneurship world, I personally believe that your your life should be your work and your works for your life. That's kind of how it is for an entrepreneur. But let's say you are in that corporate world and you work at some particular company don't particularly like then the line between work and play or home or, or life or whatever you want to call it, it starts to get a little bit muddied. Yeah, and even from just the perspective of your own happiness in your own health, that isn't good. But even from the perspective of your work, that isn't good. And here's why it is much, much more

Much more efficient to focus in on one thing, 100% of your focus for a short period of time, rather than returning to it intermittently here and there. Oh, I wake up, I checked my Blackberry. And then, oh, let me go get some breakfast. And then let me go get to work. And then And then also, your leisure gets into your work, you're at work, and then maybe your wife starts texting you, maybe your friends start texting him. It's much much, much more efficient if you just zone in and you will only check your emails, do your work Paul out on work as hard as you can for eight hours, and then completely Leave it aside and then focus on life because studies have shown that multitasking does not exist. It literally does not exist. What happens is your brain switches between two tasks very quickly and it feels like it exists but it really doesn't so

and it's hard because now that we have the smartphone there is almost this corporate expectation that you be on call all the time to some capacity.

Yeah, and some companies are more cool than others. But for the most part, if you're working a hard deadline, you have some that needs to get done and your boss texts you at 7pm or it gives you a call and you just do not respond to him at all until 9am The next morning it's kind of say it's going to say what the hell man Hmm

So is there a question

no just reading no writing an aging okay so the echo echo your statement or that rent right

so there's a there's a transitional phase and I think right now

when she talked about the corporate world obviously you still have to be regional and say okay are you talking about the American corporate world or where I'm from which is from Hong Kong right because it's quite different as well in what ways are different and it's more intense it's more conservative yeah they don't change as much as unless you're like a like a very westernized company with Western people running on the senior management how much they expected to work in Hong Kong is is still 40 hours.

There's just way more business as much as you can as much as much the stake and they can make you work. That's that's the mentality very much like, Okay, again, it depends on the sector, right, but to have their to allow their employees to work from home that's something brand new that maybe 1% of the workforce might have that luxury to to to do that. And here in America especially we go to the tech industry it's like oh, you don't let me work from home on Fridays? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's still very much behind in Hong Kong work seen. And so this work life balance mentality for the local folks it's, it's, it's not a thing that they have control off. So they're pretty much still slaving away.

Now, if you talk about the younger folks, then it becomes a different scenario because now they're graduated from college or high school they have to eat shops, which they like genuinely.

Hate, you know, because to pay sucks. The working culture is toxic, like you said, right? And, and they're not going to be able to have fun. So for and it depends on depends on who you talk to now for the more fortunate ones means they have parents who are working and they can kind of like support the child's lifestyle for at least a few more years until they find their dream job right or figure out life then then I think those people are a little bit more fortunate in terms of they have more time to just see what's out there that they can

kind of grow into and figure it out. But the majority of people at least in Hong Kong is that they're still stuck in that whole system of yeah there's no there's no way out. This is the only option you have you do it bite the bullet and when you're off work, then you just like Do whatever you want it as junk as you can. Yeah.

Don't Don't think about it at all or about it and you know WhatsApp groups or something like that oh the WhatsApp groups we've got to be done to start pitching in the whatsapp group so please get get involved in a few mean pages and you'll be good yeah they're not they're not begin means oh they don't like been to China they have but they soon over there they have their why their cultures unhappy not enough means calling it now very posh I need to go over as an ambassador for America look step one important names stand up comedy is a very new thing too. So we have a couple of like stand up comedians they're not great but there's a funny enough

but so. So there's some people who really enjoy that. And I think that's also kind of like an escape. I like comedy. Like it's a great channel to kind of escape from reality and not think about the worries of life and know about it. Yeah. Do you personally do comedy? Or most I suck at making jokes. You know

funny, john No, no, no,

I'll make stupid statements once in a while. And that was that will make people laugh because that's like how jobs being stupid well that means you good.

improv, not stand up. It's funny. So I did improv for a while. And there's this great thing and improv. Okay. And that is,

I forget the exact guy that wrote it. But he's basically considered the father of improv. And, and he said, if you're onstage, yeah. And you think of something funny to say, for God's sakes, don't say it. Okay.

Sounds weird. Yeah, but it's true. I've ever been to, like, an improv comedy show.

I can't really tell the difference. It's okay. If you have a stand up is when everything's pre written. Yeah, prob, absolutely. Nothing is written. Okay. And it's interesting because the things that actually get laughs and improv are always organic. And even more specifically, it's always when someone just doesn't really know what the they're doing. And they're just kind of going along with it. And some dumb comes out of their mouth. Yeah, and they get this look on the face. Like, why did I say that? And it's hilarious. Okay. And then you'll get these other improv comedians who are, you know, they've done a few classes and they think they're funny, and they try to make a joke. Yeah,

no one laughs every single time. It's very interesting, but the joke is not like

Prepare to have every no it's not pretty prepared, but they're doing some like, Oh, I thought I thought of something witty to say. I thought something funny and they try to say it. It's like, oh, here's a joke. I'm up. You're trying to be funny. And it might get a chuckle here and there, but it's always in. Someone's just let go. What the is going on? I don't understand what I'm doing now. It gets the best left. So I think you'd be good at improv. I think I need to check out that improv. It will. It will change your personality. It might be the scariest thing in the world. I remember the first time I did it,

and they're like, okay, you're gonna go perform. And yeah, you have nothing. And you're going on stage from 100 people. And that's not a good idea, right? We shouldn't do that. We should cancel all of this. Yeah, like,

it's terribly Did you like it? I loved it. I ended up doing for about a year and a half. Okay, so that was your gig. Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, I wasn't like super crazy good at it or anything, but it's, it's terrifying. I've always been of the belief system that if something is hard, or especially something is scary, that is a signpost that you should go do it well.

For me, it's always valuation

like the Chinese capital of the season, right? That's interesting. What do you mean by that? As in? Well, first off, if you're Are you getting money off it? And if it's not, if it's not money, are you learning something from it? I got that, because you can also put evaluation on experience, right? So yeah, like money is one part. If you're paying, getting paid to do stuff, then, hey, I'm getting paid. And if you're enjoying it, and you're learning something in the process, that's also great. So as long as you're extracting value from that, that's fine. That's interesting. I, I have a similar outlook. I think I phrase it mentally a little bit differently. Yeah, so it's basically the process I go through whenever I decide whether I want to keep something or delete something from my life. And so I asked myself this question let's say it's a relationship or maybe it's a habit maybe it's drinking or something like that or eating sugary foods or or even eating good foods you can evaluate anything I asked myself is the item that I'm identifying,

giving more than it's taking.

Because things can get a little bit confusing. Mm hmm. There is absolutely nothing in life that purely just takes or purely just gives. It's always this interesting mix. Even if you take something that on paper, black and white, it's just horrible. Let's just say you're in an abusive relationship. Or let's say you're addicted to, right? Anyone who looks into that says, that's all bad. You're in an abusive relationship. That's all bad. Well, no, no, it's not all bad. Because it was all bad. You wouldn't be doing it. That abusive relationship gives you a lot of comfort. It gives you a security person, it gives you security, there are positives that is giving you a scene with. Yeah, even. It gives you this amazing feeling. Some might give you a community. A lot of people that do there, there could be these strange positives that people don't look at. And so it can get confusing, right? So I know this is a little bit contrived and cliche, but make a list make a list of the and cons and say, okay, is this taking one that's giving you

The answers yes, stop doing well. So this is like a decision process that one has to make themselves and what I find is most people, at least Most people, when they make any sort of decisions, you know that the list of and cons or even objective thinking doesn't doesn't really happen that often, right? So it's in the moment subjective believes, and then they decided what are they want to do it or not and and so for a person to really able to you know Step Take a step back you know like rationally analyze things and say you know objectively speaking this thing is actually more beneficial than harmful and then you do the action accordingly that's great that's that's I think that's a great skill to have.

Yeah I just don't know that many people will get through that. Yeah. So how are you trained to do that? Or were you being inspired to use that kind of methodology? Oh,


thing that really

initially made me start thinking about this methodology was drinking. Okay? Because drinking gives you a lot of awesome. being drunk is awesome. Yeah. And when you drink with your friends, you form amazing social relationships typically, oftentimes the best times that you have with your friends or when you're drinking, for sure. And I've actually learned that this isn't nearly as true as I thought it was. But it's a little weird when you don't drink. I thought it'd be really bad. It turns out, it's not as bad as I thought it was. But initially, when I quit drinking, I'm like, I'll I'm gonna go. Everyone's gonna be drinking. I'm not gonna be drinking.

Sam's not gonna be drinking. Oh,, I'm going to be that weird guy that's not drinking. Okay. There were a lot of things that offered me Mm hmm. And so because of that, I kept drinking for a long time. And then I started to look at the list because obviously there are a lot of things that it takes away from me. It takes away your health it takes away your time. That was the biggest one for me. It was actually the amount of time it took away in the moment drinking but it's

Specially the next day just kind of feel like. Yeah. And I've just gotten to a point where I started to value my time, much more than I did when you're 16. Yeah, another thing, this evaluation system, it can change. You can have drinking, which legitimately, you can look at this objectively and with purpose. And maybe you're 15 or 16 or 17. And you can legitimately say, at this point in my life, drinking is actually giving me more than it's taking, take the exact same thing drinking 10 years later, 25 now drinking is taking more of this giving Yeah, because you value your time work, or maybe you evaluate your health more. And so I just finally hit a point where it was taking more than it was getting, so I decided to stop that and I realized the thought process I went through to stop drinking and I started applying it to other things in life. I think the next best thing you can do this with is actually relationships both with friends but especially with loved excuse me with a significant other. Yeah, because

it's a little less common.

That your girlfriend cheats on you, and sucks the bartender's more. Your boyfriend punches you in the face. Usually, it's not this huge, dramatic thing, because you guys to break up. Usually it's this small, pervasive poison drip.

Yeah, it's accumulators on little tiny not going to set your tonight. JOHN. And it just slowly adds up. You know.

And so since that person that you're seeing didn't suck the Barton his they didn't hit you in the face. There's no defining moment where you say okay, you. I'm out of here. It's this careful balance. It's this careful balance between this person is giving me a lot know them really well. I love them. They're giving me security but there's all these things that are taking away from me. And so basically what I tell people with relationships and with anything in life is that if it's not a, yes, it's a no so if you're not enthusiastically dating this person. And again, relationships can have that up and their ups and downs and sometimes it gets

into part of relationship but overall it's not a yes about that person or about that food or about that whatever it is that you're putting into your body then it's a no

that's a good idea

I had my drinking times you know spend loads of money you know get laid

okay the other thing it helps you get laid I forgot to even met yet. Yeah. Anyone who tells you not to get laid don't know like there's tons of benefits getting drunk, right? It's and you loosen up as a person and that's why it's just it's such a big culture in Asia. I don't know if you noticed this, but people become totally relax and let go of themselves when they're drunk. Because that I don't know the chemistry of alcohol affecting the brains or anything but you know you you don't filter your words you don't filter your actions and in you know, living in Asia, Japan,

Thailand, or even home.

Hong Kong you know if you're engaging with a person

prior to being drunk or while the person is drunk like there's like to face that you're seeing and it's it's fun it's fun as hell because now you want to really learn that person you want to know what they are who they are you know and you get them a little bit intoxicated not a whole line not to a point that they're wrong and they just pass out right yeah and then you try and gauge is one step before that yeah before that and then you see the fascinating side of that person and I like that because I was also in an environment that I was kind of I have to keep my cool and I work you know when I was in the bank when I was in hotels I have to be that professional john whoa you know and and usually when I come out then that would be a you know the let go of john Holt version right and I have clients that we became friends as well and they would always tell me my and be like, Man, you're like totally different when you're at work for

This is when you're out there partying and like, Yeah, man, especially with a couple, you know, tequila shots, and all that, you know, or Jaeger bombs, and in a way that probably helped your business, especially when you're doing it with clients. Man, if you go out with a client and you'll get faced drunk together, that's a client for life. Man that is a client for life. That's why there's the purpose of having entertainment expenses in a company exactly right.

So this comes to the aspect of I think interpersonal relationships or even business relationships right and and now it's also a mix you know, you don't have people that you're 100% only business talk you know, and yes, you have friends that you hang out with you never talk gnosis that's fine, but nowadays, I think a lot of business relationships, at least with my clients there most of them are also my friends. So when it comes to any transaction, right,

it's Yeah, everything has to be on paper.

Because you want to make things legit, and all that, but at the same time, there's this element of I'm genuinely wanting to help. Like, I genuinely believe that my products and services will solve your problem that you that you asked me, right? Because, you know, I have a service, you want to buy my surface and I'm giving you a solution to it, right? And so with that friendship on top of it,

I think that's also something I find it important for customer retention. If we want to go technical gags. It's not you can argue that it's a strategy but it's also a genuine approach that works very, very well. You know, just you Yeah. And so if you have these customers that values you as a person, they will come back and they will want more of your products or services and and that's essential when you engage with anyone like anyone on the streets. Anyone you see in a bar and an office space, you know, or even

This podcast, right? Like, this is the first time I met you, I don't know who you are. I don't know, what is your intention? I don't know how to get on your live stream. Exactly. Right. So these are the risks. These are the risk, but your risk analysis, I might get. Well, be good. I have a very low tolerance. I know I have a very high tolerance for risk, meaning

there's this analogy. I also like for me to make a decision on doing anything that I have very little knowledge off, right? I'm only asking myself this question. Am I going to die doing this too? So if I don't die doing this, I'll probably do it then. It's a good police one time at least one time except drugs like or anything like that. But if anyone were to like, give me an invitation to do something that I don't know what it is, or I have no idea what's gonna turn out I'm gonna be like, I'll give it a try because not gonna die. Right? Looks like they won't die from 20% chance of dying. Yeah, let's do it. Let's Let's eat the blowfish. It's a rite of passage.

What is it

Actually to die from eating the blowfish is pretty slim Really? Yeah yeah it will. It's about how they cut it right? You're obviously not going to pick one in the sea or not it's going to start off a shovel about blowfish you're gonna go to a legitimate restaurant with a chef that knows what he's doing and hopefully yeah and hopefully it's a certified as Catholics establishment and you're paying good money for it you know that blowfish better be delicious man I tried it you really the poisonous one that could kill you. It's just allegedly just fish. It's just it felt like a badass right? Are you a little nervous for the next 24 hours a little bit? Don't lie. It was in your head you're going to bed at night being like, I hope you know blowfish. Right? No. Like because if I were to worry about it afterwards, then why wouldn't do it in the first place? That would be stupid, right? If I'm if I'm decided to do it. If I've decided to do something, I'm not going to regret doing it. Exactly. You know, cuz it's like there's then you should you might as well don't do it in the first place. And it's not like worrying is going to keep you from dying. If you're going to die. Just go for it. Now if I feel bad.

Like a few hours I'm starting to

feel right that's not good yeah and then I'll start getting anxious but it's all like who are just like you know like this this fish that could kill me What am I feeling now? I guess my heart running a little bit faster because I just like walk up the stairs so I think in who traditionally is it Japan that does this blue yeah so I think you're a man and i'm not i think that's how it works how so supposedly in order to become a man You have to eat blowfish something like that so I'm a little boy you have never tried like Tiger Wine you know a gallbladder chicken fee on I was just at the tiger wind bar the other day and I was gonna get some but I had to go oh you know i don't know it's just I don't know if I can hang with you anymore and that's what I'm saying is I'm just a man hang with the boy gone I haven't I had a bull one time that's the closest I got who had a silkworm audit. That takes up the bull. Yeah, pretty good. To be honest. pretty good day.

Call them Rocky Mountain oysters. And then I ordered them were sat in Colorado and I mean like up in the mountains and there are no oysters in the mountains. Like that's kind of the joke. And so I ordered them and then all the waitresses are kind of like staring at me and I'm thinking why are all these waitresses staring at me and I eat it no one starts laughing I thought was good what was on the menu though? It's not the menu so why would they live I kept eating them oh because usually people just eat a bite and fro I guess so I mean what's so bad about the balls I bet there's then you're half a man there you go yeah I almost got there I feel like I got some vitamins that people just don't get I think all you need now as maybe a snake gallbladder Yeah. When with Warner I'll take you there in Hong Kong. Have you been allows? Yeah. They use a bio from the gallbladder and a lot of their meals. Yes. And it's really good. It's a real Yeah. So they'll take the bile from the body and then maybe make a soup or cook it in the before do something like that. Really. And it's got to

very bitter taste. Yeah, I could definitely see how it sounds like, like, wow. Like, it tastes like licorice. Luckily, it's not that bad. So I hate licorice. But it's. It's. Yeah, it's in the same direction.

Um, it's an acquired taste for sure. I like it though. Okay, it's good. I am. You're getting there. You're getting there. You're almost there. Almost there. So hang out with you. Maybe one time

just do shots of bile together. Oh diet. Bring me the tiger.

But this is what I do on my periscope channel as well. So like I travel a lot and whenever I travel a lot of countries man you're in scams popping Yeah. So that's that's also my passion, which I haven't successfully convert it into. Like a sustainable business. Which I really really want to. Unfortunately I don't have nice and a pretty face not Yeah, yeah. So pretty face. I'm still working on it. Black in the booth. Yeah, and the blonde hair thing as your. I don't know. It depends on who you are.

My wife on Instagram is gonna fall ball like Turkey. Yeah, no, no, I have booty in Hong Kong. That's not booty in Thailand.

It could be an angle. But I don't want to go there. Yeah, I know. It's a stupid thing. If I can. Money time, some pride thing. I know,

my Chinese side is kind of like, pulling me back. Like, I thought it took this grace your country

your Chinese. I thought by the end of this podcast, you'd be selling your eight inch pills and you'd be shown your off on Instagram and various beach I know you've had I could convert you it's not as easy not as easy but uh. Yeah, but traveling is fun. And I like I love doing it and when I wasn't so I started parents coping in Hong Kong and there's also a lot of traditional Chinese things that that is very normal for us people living in in Hong Kong but for foreigners who you know came to Asia for the first time it's very weird for them right. claustrophobic is one thing we're like in you get we have

The coffin hotels or whatever they're called, well, that's in Japan. But we also have them now in Hong Kong, but just being in any form of public transportation in Hong Kong, so most of the times a day, you're just, you're just packed in and, and the restaurants that you have to share table with, you know,

that that is totally normal for us. But then for some, some people who need a lot of space, that's why do I have a stranger eating next me, you know, that kind of thing. And then gradually it goes more extreme like, so you have to eat them someplace where they serve you the Chinese food and then there's chicken feet, you know,

okay, yeah. And then you go to the, the wet markets we call it which is really local market and you have just like bloody meat, you know, jumping fish, live chicken, nice and all that. And so that when I do my scopes, people get fascinated or grossed out yeah, it's either one way or the other usually right. Be both at the same time. Yeah, yeah,

I mean, there are so so for for people who haven't been exposed to that side of Hong Kong.

Because you really don't see a lot of those in TV you know if you watch the Chinese movie it's it's ridiculous how they're still you know having Hong Kong on a scene which is nothing like it yeah but the real Hong Kong still has weird stuff and that's not shown on TV as much and so people would walk along with me on these markets because I really I still go buy my groceries in these places yeah oh by my vegetables Yeah, I would point A deficient be like yes, I want that fish. They would kill it in front of me and I was a freshman. I hope you're not vegan. No, I'm not. I keep accidentally getting vegans on my podcast though. I've gotten two or three in a row and I love me I'll eat it all day and then I'll start saying something offensive I'll get this weird look and I'll try to convert them to to cart carne never racism yeah refers convert conversion so I I dated a vegan for a year and you know what I learned? You don't try to convert the vegans the person has to be like super hot she was she was hot and

He was actually a cool vegan to her credit. She was the coolest vegan Okay, she would she would keep it low key she you wouldn't even know she's vegan unless you ask her. What? She let you eat me? Of course. Okay, I'm 100% I did have this other vegan friend who would legitimately freak out when an order meat and it was so annoying. But Chiang Mai this is this is the vegan vegan I think you think they're religious, you know like the hardcore religious groups are free keys, you know, you talk to a vegan the hardcore vegan and yeah, there as crazy as you know, well, I think that the vegans need to take a page out of elementary persuasive psychology. So they've done studies on what

what makes people make decisions and what makes people stick to decisions and the number one thing that they found to ensure

someone makes a decision that you want is that they think that it's their idea.

Here's what I mean by that.

Let's say you woke up today and said, You know what? Today I'm going to get in shape today. I'm going to go work out. I'm gonna go, I'm going to go lift and then I call you. I say, john, you know what? You're fat piece of. You should go to the gym you're gonna get off the phone and even though you were just thinking to yourself, you're going to work out when you get off the phone, you're gonna say, you know what, you, man. I'm not gonna work out today. It's just basic psychology. Anytime you tell someone to do something, and it's not their idea. They immediately get defensive. Yeah. Whereas if you phrase it in such a way that it feels like it's their idea, yes. If you just start talking about first it's just a subtle shift. Just talking about how positive your experiences and veganism to say oh, I've done all this really cool stuff. Then they start digging. Yeah, I don't think you should necessarily be a vegan. I don't. I don't know if it's if it's marketing one on one. Yeah. Right. It comes down to how are you pitching an idea, right. And I think Well, obviously they're not trying.

They're not trained to to to like be marketing seminar that so they should they should you know if they want to successfully do it but it's it's funny though because the same approach or the same mistakes will be made by most entrepreneurs and this is what I learned from my network marketing business I started like eight years ago you know you think you know cells you think you know marketing and you go and do it because I was in the sales and marketing in the corporate world but now it's different because now it's on me now I'm selling the products but the person who will decide whether they want to buy the products or not it's not so much the company but have me right so and and obviously the you know the first couple months being in a business you're learning but you're also not fully immersing in it or you're not like using those skill sets and and you you would just say Sam you look kind of tired today I am tired and and and I have these products that can really make you feel a lot. I'm trying I feel like I'm selling drugs. Now. Some of that

Now for me yeah like it's not track so like I have some like, you know, like like anti aging supplements I really want to try like yeah yeah nobody's gonna respond that way they probably wouldn't I'm tired Oh you saying I look ugly you could get out of here yeah well not that extreme but that's pretty much what the brain is thinking on on the other side right? So yeah that happens to a lot of vegans I I seen you know some of them are slightly more subtle but even though they haven't you know what they're doing, you know, you see the glimmer in there. I I'll have you tried this like, nice, organic piece of carrot that I've grown back of it myself. Yeah. If you want to bring you some strange looking brownies and very suspect brownie. Yeah, you know,

a girlfriend, your ex girlfriend was probably like seducing you in different ways. Trying to get you into veganism too. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I would go and have a vegan meal and accident and she would pop off and like all right, relax. I still liquids I I need me I'm sorry. So and it didn't work out a year later. No, no. Didn't.

I don't think veganism but you know, it's possible that played a role. I'm just. I'm just teasing. annoying to be honest with you. When I wanted to go to a restaurant as it goes a vegan, no.

Anyway, anyway, so you've been in marketing and sales for a hot minute. Yeah. What do you think is the number one thing people should know about marketing and sales? What's the number one piece of advice you would give to people who are trying to market or sell their product? Or maybe even their personal brand?

Very easy,

shut the up and listen first.

Okay, that's it. What do you mean by that? You don't pitch

Yeah, like the moment so in sales and marketing. The moment you engage with someone and it's very

subconscious, you feel like you need to do your job you need to start selling you need to start marketing you're not you don't necessarily you're not necessarily putting a product in front of them, start telling what the prices what benefits are, but there is that intention.

In your mind that you're going to you're going to get get a deal they're gonna be you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna you're going to tell them something they don't know that they become aware then they're going to note that they want to they want to have this curiosity and and and and then they might go down that marketing funnel and then eventually they will be your customer funnel right the funnel right

there is that process but the more important thing before that whole process is really to know who you're talking to in front of you before even implying any employing any tactics to do that sales and marketing thing and I think that is the one thing that a lot of people kind of either forgot or they omit, or they don't think it's as important as it should be. So that's easier to digest. When you are let's say, having a client for example, you can talk to them and you can listen to their problem and then you can address their problem specifically. But what if you're trying to take that same approach and you're trying to apply it on a more

macro scale, let's say even something like writing copy, right? Or something where you can't engage with the client specifically, you're having to put out content that's going to millions of people. How do you listen so to speak, while still engaging with millions? So that's the that's why also love live streaming, right? So essentially live stream is a different piece of content and it's up to me to show people what it's in front of my camera right? So that is content that I'm giving out for people to consume. Now the great thing about live stream is there's instant feedback from the other side so they tell you Oh, what is that oh, I don't like it or can you turn a camera left Oh, who's that person that just walk by and why is he you know, like holding that bag or something right? So as you push out content through I don't know like an article a video this you want to have as many feedback as you can. Right? So that

That's also a very, you know, typical tactic like engagement, like, what kind of engagement Are you gaining? And essentially, it's just massive action, massive content, you put everything out there, you see what's engaging more, and you try to understand more in the engagement by seeing, okay, a like,

of a post is some sort of engagement, but it's a low level one, right? But if there's a comment that kind of asked you a question back, or they want to know more, or they want to tell, you know, that's not how I think about things, then you start analyzing from those engagement, right? And say, oh, okay, so this is what people think about this piece of information. So it's like navigating and, and forests but you don't know where you're going. But there's an ultimate destination there. And then essentially, you just have to keep walking, right? If you're standing there, you're never gonna get anywhere, but you have to keep walking, right? So you're walking, you're walking, you're walking and it's a feel as in Okay, I'm walking this path and

The trees seems more dense like or there's like freaking animals cheese keep common yeah yeah and then and then then the animals are like like in front of you can hear the animal Christ was like that doesn't sound like a way to civilization right so I should I should go towards the direction that's going downhill and has a little bit open you know space you know you see a stream oh you hear some mechanical stuff at the background you know there's all these signs it's just how good you are to pick them up while you go you walk so you keep walking you keep walking keep walking you don't know you don't have a very good like idea on how to do things but eventually you'll figure out as if you're really good at picking up these uh.

engagements or reactions from people but you touched on a little bit on knowing who you're marketing to. So how does one figure that out from the beginning who their marketing to and more specifically what their niches


I think if you have to figure it out yourself, it would take longer than if you have a good mentor and to really help you and give you some like feedback. So obviously,

I don't have one mentor in life that tells me how to do my business. But I have many, many people that I would go to them and ask for advice and tell them what they think about the things that I'm doing. Sometimes their friends, sometimes you're just all your business people that have more experience in the topic. Sometimes it's just people who are very honest to me, right? You know, because friends can be a good feedback mechanism as well. Because if you're doing something off, they can tell you in your face and be like, dude, you're being stupid. Now, how you analyze the response is also something but essentially, if you have someone that you can trust, and you know, they're honest, and they know their, I was gonna say, you have to have to know your part. Yeah, because you're an entrepreneur. You're an entrepreneur for 10 years. And usually when that happens, you get a bunch of other friends that are entrepreneurs. Yeah, I know this. If you're just starting out, you shouldn't go to off.

Bob from high school asked her friends or family members about business ideas, that's a bad thing. But there are people that have more experience. It might be a distant uncle that you don't have a relationship with. But you know that they're pretty successful in life. And then you'd be like, hey, uncle, like, I'm trying to do this thing. And can you give me some advice? You know, that could be a start or you just, you know, find the people that you want to be in that business industry and you start reading their stuff you start you know, like, you know, like how you're a big fan of Ilan Musk, for whatever reason, right email every day back, keep tweeting them on the podcast. Yeah. And you may be a little busy. Yeah, but, but, you know,

I mean, he could be a mentor. He could be a mentor in whatever aspect of the business that you're trying to pursue. You know, maybe it's about innovation. Maybe it's about like an attitude. You know how he doesn't sleep at all how he's popping pills, I don't know. But you know, there's something that's exciting. Yeah, yeah.

So, so

That having having mentor or mentors, I think it's a good idea in business. I'm glad you touched on that. Because I've always been a really, really big fan of having mentors. And sometimes I will

I struggle a little bit because I always have this pervasive feeling that when I go to someone like john, Joe sample, I can't shake the feeling that I'm just taking value from you, you know, I'm in in order to mitigate that. I'm constantly thinking how can I give value to john? Whoa, yeah, because you're john hope you've got your own thing going on. Got a massive social media following. You have a million different businesses to deal with. I'm sure you have other people that you're mentoring. So for me to just come on your radar and say, Hey, john, how can you give me advice on my podcast?

You know, the thing is, you're really, really nice guy. So you might do it, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm just kind of taking away from your time. So how do you

How do you make it equitable? How do you give value back to someone who has in your eyes? Everything and money that the business? How do you give value back to them?

Okay, so different steps here, right? So let's say if you are ready

if you've already received something from the person, right? And and now you're just thinking of, Oh, I need to get back I need to give back then I think the easiest way is just to ask them, like, so. How can I be of service? How can I help you? You know, like,

Is there anything I can help you with? I don't know a lot, but

I'm enthusiastic. Yeah. And, and sometimes they'll be like, yeah, I actually have something that you can help me with, you know, and sometimes they're like, now it's okay, well, they appreciate that you asked. Yes. So just just a gesture of asking upfront, I think it's decent. Now, if you can't, if you know the person good enough and you know what they need and if you can really do something that can really help them out, then that's great. But sometimes, you know, like it's not the first couple of times that you will know what they need. Exactly right. And it's just a simple question of like,

Yeah so thank you for, you know, doing the spending your time, you know, is there anything I can help? You know,

simple as that. So in order to find these mentors in the first place, do you find that most of your mentors come a little bit more naturally come through networking come through things like that? Or do you even go so far as to say, Man, that guy's killing it I'm gonna send them an email

I'm slightly passive in that sense. So I usually just let it naturally happen so I so so the thing I do is I I love meeting people and I love going to places to just talk to random people basically right and so I give myself enough opportunities to be you know interacting with different people from all different backgrounds and all that and if the vibe you know is right and you know very fast like you know he's holding a drink or talking with this person is he or she interested in you or you know, does the lazy like constantly looking as phone or watch you know, and like trying to

You know, Dodgers on Tinder the whole time? Yeah? Yeah.

Exactly. So So if it if it seems like it's in a relationship, then you start building it right. But I don't. So I don't I don't send emails to Ilan musk. Yeah. I know. Some people that do they say, find a badass and email them. And you'd be surprised.

Sometimes it works. That's probably a good strategy. I'm not saying it's not. It's just not something I have done. Yeah. So I mean, you kind of have to check your ROI on that sort of exactly. Like if you're gonna people are going to spam people's inbox and you know, like, there's a point 00 1% chance of getting reply Yeah, I guess you can do it. But you can also use your time to do better stuff for more efficient Yeah, I would say try to build your business to where when they look at you, instead of having a point 00 1% chance maybe bump it up 2.01 Yeah.

And but focus on hire someone else to do it for you for spam emails? Yeah, right. Because, hey, my money, my time is my money. So I don't think I can justify the ROI if it's point 01. Exactly. And it's funny that you mentioned that and you especially

We mentioned it in conjunction earlier with sales and listening to the person because I'm going through the wringer trying to hire like a Filipino virtual assistant Jaeger thing like that. And not being racist. You're set that they're very cheap. Most of the time I do a good job. Yes, they're really good and they speak English. It's like two or $3 an hour to do anything you want. I'm sorry I'm trying to make some money here to be an entrepreneur we're giving money to the economy we're not slaving yeah yeah we got the same way so I've gone through that whole process

and it's funny because this is the first time in my life where I've ever been on the other side of the hiring table okay ever I've always been the dude submitting the resume yeah we're actually gotten the resume and I've gotten I don't know 50 in boxes on on inbox messages on the the ad I put up and you know what's funny I could give a about their resume

the college they went to you.

Anything like that? Yeah of those 50 messages I would say there were one maybe two that got my attention because they read the actual post mm hmm and they address the actual problems that I that I wanted they weren't just copying and pasting some generic I'm a hard work and Filipino editor

yeah why I decided to go Alabama for that one. Um, they didn't just copy paste that they said look I know that you need someone that can do notes and do audio engineering like this I did audio engineering over here I did show notes for this this so I can help you have experienced and specifically what you want to do let's do this yeah this guy listen this guy has experienced and what I want and there are other people were it's funny because the people that that send me those messages have one two years of experience. Video Editing I got resonates with people that have had 15 years of experience video editing people with master's degrees. I don't give a I give a about the person that listened so

It's so finding a mentor versus finding an employee is for me at least something that's quite similar as in I think the first thing I need to know is what are we can communicate. Mm hmm. And I'm not saying language wise, I'm saying like, do you get me or not? Because you can have very intelligent people. You can have very hardworking people. They can know their inside out. But if you can't communicate and throughout that process of working together, or mentorship it's just very difficult. You're gonna go crazy. Yeah. Like

I've met some very and like smart people.

And and we were trying to get some work done right. But it doesn't it doesn't like he like the person would think.

I thought I've told you how to do this thing. And I'm like, No, there's nothing live in the conversation that you mentioned exactly how this task should be done, you know, and it's not eater fault. It's just like

Is there a click in that relationship? And if there's none done, like, I can't work with that person. So that's why that's why I'm slightly reluctant to hire someone that I cannot see face to face. Yeah, even though I know it's very cheap, but they're probably doing a good job if you can find the right one. But there's always this thing in my mind. Like, if I can't see that person, if I can't talk to them, like face to face,

then there's just one layer of uncertainty that really trust them.

It's not a trust issue is just like communication efficiency. Yeah, you know, you know,

there's so much happening when you're seeing a person face to face. And just like hearing them boys over the phone, or even doing a video Skype call. Like, if it has to be done that way, then I don't have any choice. But if I get to choose hiring a person here in Chiang Mai, versus hiring a Filipino, you know,

say you're close by if I fly, right? Absolutely means I could. I could have a big interview day. Yeah, but, you know, for me, I like to work in a very small team kind of style so I don't need more than a few people to

Really do the things that I'm doing. And I like to try different people as well. So I have, you know, literally just a couple people that I'm working closely with, that's way to do it, get a whole team. So I have always kind of been of the belief that entrepreneurship is kick, but it's not for everyone. You know,

there are a lot of people who

say, Oh, I want to break out of the nine to five, and they have this,

they have this very Tim Ferriss four hour workweek view of what entrepreneurship is

in. So my question to you is, how do you know if entrepreneurship is right for you? How do you know if that's the path you should go down and you should quit the corporate world or if you should, if you would be happier working for a company because there are some people out there who genuinely I think they would be happier working nine to five and if everyone was an entrepreneur, if everyone was a chief. The world would fall apart you know? Yeah.

7 billion people, more entrepreneurs than whatever the you're gonna hire.

So I think it's just being realistic.


so if I'll talk about myself first, I wasn't happy working at my jobs. The money wasn't

the thing that gave me the satisfaction that I want to wake up naturally every single day and work 10 hours and then sleep with like, you know, like, I've achieved something that kind of really yeah so

and and I knew that this couldn't be my life for like the next 40 years, right? It's just not gonna work. I'm gonna be a zombie, right so I have to do something different. Now when I say I want to do something different that means there's a vision that I see a better like a better alternative so if my lifestyle right and so now

Most people, including myself, at the very beginning, we're not we're not taught, we're not warned, we're not

exposed to the the hardship and and the challenges and the obstacles that you need to actually grind through before even being there halfway. Right? And so, again, I think having a mentor will definitely help help when you go through this process of entrepreneurship, being in a community that would also support your decision on doing something different Chiang Mai for example. Yeah, you know, and like minded people, you know, so I always think like, you know, entrepreneur groups, you know, if you find some people that they're really supportive that's great. Like it doesn't it doesn't mean it doesn't matter what you wanted to but having a supportive group is very very important and that's why I chose network marketing in the beginning because in network marketing business you always have an upline that you have that sponsor and that sponsor

responsible for

taking care of you or making sure you,

you know, you're having volume having sales volume, right? So, so essentially they, they should know something to teach you. So you have you have the sponsor and then you have the community because it's it's a company, it's a team, they have a lot of team activities working. So that's what I picked, I find, and if anyone were to ask me, and they don't know anything about entrepreneurship, they don't have that money to like, burn down the road and what they say I want to learn about business. I'll tell them find a good network marketing company, find a sponsor that would care for you, genuinely for you and try it. Try it for a couple years. Just do it like and then so For the uninitiated, give us a quick breakdown what network marketing is exactly so so network marketing business is basically the the older term of product affiliation, right? So you have a brand they have products and they want distributors to sell their products and so network marketing company

companies, they don't do the proper. They don't do the conventional like retail business as they don't put it on retail salt stores. They don't, they don't. They don't sell it with their counter salesperson and all that. It's just

these individuals that would sign up to become an independent distributor, right and so day would help they would become the Salesforce of the company. But part of the commission scheme is not sales volume commission from the products they sell, but also the network of Salesforce that they can recruit that will sell products for the company that they also take a small part of it as an extra bonus to build that sell to do you as a salesman also recruit other salesmen. Yes, it sounds a little pyramid scheme well that's the that's the thing that everybody is thinking about. network marketing business business and pyramid scheme is just a term doesn't mean positive or does it mean negative depends on who you talk to? My understanding means negative. Yeah, so the

The conventional pyramid scheme eat things that you hear from this business model. Is that how they operate? The business is not taking money from

the products, they're taking money from, like recruitment. And that's illegitimate. Like that's illegal. When I ask you this, do you have to personally purchase the products yourself and then you're reselling them? Or is or you're not supposed to do that. Yeah, good. That's what makes this pyramid scheme but it's not. It's not the company that's at fault here. It's that person who's buying the products or who's convincing other people to buy the products and reselling them, because that's never the intention off the company itself. And this is where it gets murky. And people misunderstand how it works. So I if someone were to come to me and say, I want to try distribute the products that I do, right, and then I'll tell them great. Now when I tell people you need to buy these products, it's not for reselling. It's for you to use it and for you to tell you try whether you'd like to products or not because

The ultimate thing is a product don't work or if you don't know anything about the product then how are you going to share the people they do you know how how amazing this product this is not authenticity that we're getting from and I'm a big like I'm a big deliver if it's a product even from the company that I don't like I'm not going to tell anyone that pill actually did make your eight inches longer than not talk about an authentic sales Exactly. You're gonna come in swinging and into that businessman as you know, like I could make millions right billion maybe trillions yeah you might be the richest man on earth. If there is one pill there's one pill but so so that's that's where people obviously there's a bad reputation of that business model but I would argue that there's a lot of confusion there's a lot of misinformation especially there's an episode from john oliver that specifically also addressed that potential like scams and the hypocrisy within this network marketing companies and and i agree with him in some parts but in other parts

That's not the entire story. That's not the truth of how these businesses are operating. A lot of the businesses, the one that I'm working with is actually listed in a stock market has changed. So it's a legitimate company. They have products they've been selling for 20 years right now. And then you have people telling you, yeah, but I had this really bad experience, or my friend got scammed. I've Yeah, it's always the night and, and, and, and like, I don't want anything to do with it, then I will tell them. That's cool. Okay. But I'm still telling people if you want to learn about entrepreneurship, network marketing as a great way, and it's very cheap for you to have that experience to trainers, because,

like how did you learn entrepreneurship

going out and just started my own business and just putting my balls in the fire and just trying to figure out what works just trying to figure out well, and also talking to people like you. Luckily, luckily, I'm I happen to go into an interesting path of entrepreneurship. Okay, wait.

I get to talk to other entrepreneurs. Okay. I mean, that's kind of the business model. And so I think that accelerated my learning a lot. And that in order to grow my business, I have to talk to intelligent people like you, which helps me grow my business. It's this. It's this crazy. exponential curve. Yeah. You know, so you have to figure it out yourself. Yeah. And you read books, you watch YouTube videos, you know, can read some for our work and things like that. Yeah. Right. So and,

and so you pretty much have to figure it out yourself. Now, if, if everyone you want to encourage to go through this entrepreneurship

and you tell them to do exactly the same way that you're doing? What do you think is the success rate of this other person? A random other person? Yeah, random, random person achieving what you can achieve at this point of life. 10%, 10%.

That's a high conversion. I was being generous. Yeah, obviously, I didn't want to discourage your Twitter viewers or anything. No, no, no.

All about being real here and we're all about being honest. We're talking about a random person off the street someone someone just comes to you and say, I want to learn to do the business and and and and then you tell them do exactly what I'm doing. Oh, you mean literally my business? No or don't go through go through the experience that you've been through this. So you have to you have between one and 3%, I would argue that network marketing journey of becoming or learning to become an entrepreneur business would be slightly more effective than that you think so, because we do have a training system, we have leaders that are trained to train people. Let's think this confusing. It seems like fundamentally network marketing, you're still working for a company

it's it's how you interpret it, you can choose to be only distributing the products you can choose to use your time to do other businesses. Obviously, we're talking about what are you want to focus and doing one thing at a time, right? So you can do 10 things you can you can go to 10 companies where you can do 10 products.

To sell,

but is that? Does that mean you have a higher success rate? Or do you have a very sustainable business model compared to just doing with one company? And this comes to also like, which company do you want to associate yourself to work on that business model, right? So obviously, if it's a new company that that has just set up that has no sales record, and you don't know what the management is, and you don't know how, like safe or how good the products are, then that's a big risk you're taking because you're only like associating your name with something that's totally unknown. And that's why when people choose network marketing business to be associated with I also keep telling them fine You don't have to be with my company but find a company that you know that has been around it has a good track record, you know, the sales team, the management of the company is legitimate, they're not out there to scam people because there are a lot of these people to same in any business though it same it's the same with any industry, right? But when it comes to network marketing, it's just a little bit there's just a lot more nuance out there that people are

Just like they're not,

they're not as easily bought in. Yeah. What's the typical way to drive sales network marketing? Because my imagination with it would be sounds like it's mostly affiliate marketing, right? It's the exact same thing. So I can't really see a major difference between affiliate marketing and network marketing, other than a lot more personal involvement with the company. Is that accurate? Yeah. And they give you more support. Because if you do affiliate marketing with any other brands out there, all they do give you as a coach, you lie. Yeah, and then go do it. And you get 2%, and maybe the people that you can sign up to be also sponsoring to give you another point 05 percent or something. It's the same business model. See, it's just marketed better for people who don't know, can affiliate marketers who are already in the affiliate marketing game go to so what does your company in skincare, it's new skin and us. So let's say I do affiliate marketing. Yes, I'm selling Uber downloads. Who gives a yeah. And then Can I just go to new skin and say, hey, let's say Uber is giving me 2%.

Yeah, and new skin. Let's just say hypothetically is giving 4%. Yes, I'm like that. Can I just go to new skin and say, Hey man, I'm Give me your code I want 4%? Or is there there? is some type of contract involved? Do they get stingy with who they give the code to? Or can I just go get anyone can anyone can have to code. Anyone can have to code. You can do other stuff. They don't care. But there are like terms and conditions that you have to market the products properly legitimately so you can't do your own crazy pop up ads that don't go away. Yeah, he put them on the million sites type. No, yeah, because they have the reputation to protect as well. Right. But I'm saying it's the same monitor that if you have 10,000 affiliate marketers working for you putting 10,000 different ads around 10,000 different website you have very dedicated sales people and sales leaders. Goodness gracious, it's a call it sounds like a nightmare to try to monitor all that it is it is in a sense for at the company level

you have you have these people you have these cells leaders that you have no control.

role and how they're doing the business and a certain extent because they're not, they're not employed there, you're not bound by the restrictions of a sales employee in a typical company. But at the same time, these people are also very motivated because they see the affiliation as their own business. And a company would try as much as possible to incentivize them and try as much as retaining them because they can also quit if the inner doing well, right. So there's this, you know, healthy relationship between the distributors and the company, you know, and, and, and, and for the people who are very loyal for the company,

they stay more than 1520 years like we have sales leaders that's been with the company since the beginning and they're making millions and millions of dollars and so you know, it's, it's

when I when I use the word network marketing or MLM or anything I know the other side of the table will start having these little like mine bubbles and be like all So yeah, that's game blah, blah, blah. It's absolutely normal. Now, the next step is

If they want to engage, if they were on to further engage into that conversation, I'll talk about it and if they don't, that's cool. We can talk about something else. So

yeah, so you're still doing it or have you mostly pivoted into the session, I'm still doing it but I'm trying to learn how to use social media strategies to apply on my best ah sir combining them yeah, you shouldn't just stick Yeah, everything has to be no that's exactly why I got into learning social media

three years ago because I know this is something off the future and it seems like your social media business has kind of taken off of its own volition you know it it seems to me like you have skills of just growing social media for the sake of social media which is a massive business in and of itself it can be but

let's just say I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket so I still have super strong confidence and I still think my network marketing product affiliation if you want to call it that way is something that will and it is is a major incomes

source for my own self. Because if you're going through this entrepreneurship like journey, and you talk to a lot of people who are doing this,

they're not going to get rich in the first couple years. But mighty money. Yeah. No, it's normal. It's, it's, it's like any entrepreneurship, whatever you're doing, and new skin and drop shipping. And, you know, like, create making content. I was going to ask you about drop shipping, because drop shipping fulfilled by Amazon. It seems to me, like right now in the entrepreneurship world, that that is the Holy Grail. You know it maybe it's just based on the people I'm hanging around in Chiang Mai, but it seems like everyone who has dug themselves out of jobs. Yeah, it feels like everyone has done it a few years ago, affiliate marketing now it feels like drop shipping fulfilled by Amazon.

I keep hearing things about drop shipping. I don't know anyone who's making loads of money from job shadow. Anyone who's making loads

Money. What I know are more four hour workweek type of people who are making an okay amount of money. But how do you define Okay, though? How much is okay? I'm 60 to $100,000 here

and enough to support yourself basically enough that you decent reliably quit your. Okay, so how many people or what's the percentage of people that claims to be doing drop shipping and are actually making 6060 to 100? Well, I guess I don't really know the exact figures, most people but if you have to guess like

if I looked at all the businesses, of all the entrepreneurs, I know

and it almost feels like 30 to 40% of them are doing fulfilled by Amazon drop shipping 60 to 100,000. I'm not sure about the money but it seems like that's what they're doing. And I know that they're supporting themselves. I I'm kind of throwing numbers around based in one or two people. I know 1600 thousand. But I do know a lot of people regardless of what their exact numbers are, where they're working a really job, and now they're working for themselves. Yeah, and they've automated A lot of it out.

Which I feel like for most people, there are some hustlers out there. Yeah, there are some Jeff Bezos is out there that just want to rule the world. But when you're first starting, I think it's mostly people who are working some job they hate and they want to get out of it. And then once you get out of it, um, and you've started your own business, and then you can automate that business, you know, maybe take a little hit of income, but automate that business to where you're making a living wage, even if you're making 30, $40,000

a year, but you're not working 40 hours a week and McDonald's then your mind is free. Yeah, so with drop shipping, because I don't have enough experience to talk about it. The only question I will pose is,

how long does it take you to start from zero and knowing nothing to learning it to making a good amount of money from it. good amount of money is defined by if you're living a comfortable life by your own standards, right. So that's the first question the second question will be

how sustainable is this business that you're pursuing and spending time and doing the effort? And it seems kind of like a hot in this town. That's that's a big red flag, right? Because

you're putting your time your effort, your money and you're making your expertise. Yeah, yeah, you're making you're making decent money from it. But if this is something just like a fad or trend, you don't know how long this drop shipping thing is going to last for. Or you don't know how competitive it's going to get into future because everyone is doing it and there's no way to ensure that you can you can build this to for for long term you know, and then you better have a backup plan. That's that's, that's all I'm gonna say. Right? It's great that you're choosing shot drop shipping, because everyone is talking about drop shipping

and if you're making money from it,

way to go. But how sustainable is this and do you have a backup plan? That's all I'm going to ask.

Dip your feet and multiple pools of water. It seems like learned about well as it does no just become an expert in the typewriter and just turn into that the reality is you never know what's going to happen 10 years 20 years right? But are you prepared for it? Or are you conscious of whatever you're doing is sustainable right? Or are you learning new stuff so that you're like adapting to the changing environment in your business and those are the things that people can easily be very feel very comfortable because they're making a good sum of money and then they don't think about it at all right like the crypto stories very subtle kinda like it's very typical right i'm not saying you can't make money off cryptocurrency I'm questioning the sustainability of this you know, and it's just not something I would it's not my preference. It's not my preference because there's 100 thousands of business that you can you can pursue yourself right. There are certain reasons why don't go into certain businesses. You know it

And and and because of my own principles I'm not saying they can't make money I'm just saying that's not what I prefer so

so when i when i when i talk to like start like people who are just starting to do their business I start asking them questions and then I can gauge like okay you know your you're good or you don't know people dig pills will always be around yeah that's a sustainable industry right there for those people who are selling those pills

I need to learn their marketing strategy dude I know a guy where that that's what made him his first mill Are you serious were on god man Wow It was pills is affiliate marketing pills mostly on sites yeah second World countries

he said he said that they'll sell themselves of course

yeah it's just what are you you need very little copywriting ability to sell Yeah. All you need is a animated grab like a jacket growing larger. Yeah.

Well and then you have that language that associates with the target audience and you want to be on

let me ask you this. So let's say gather you have a time machine. JOHN. Oh yeah. The Time Machine. You're about to go back in time

to your very first day is a john how entrepreneur? Mm hmm. And old wise, john Whoa. It's gonna talk to new young doe eyed. Mm hmm. JOHN Whoa. What would old wise Don, john. Whoa, tell him


stop practical. So I don't think of these things. You have a time machine? Yeah, okay. Yeah. Well, okay. So if I were to go back let's say you have a son All right. Just getting it Yeah, yeah,

I would tell him

to shut the up and listen to people

the biggest obstacle for learning his

unwillingness to be open minded it's it's it's it's the

It's the biggest killer of personal growth, the moment you decided to switch off and block

things that you're not familiar with, or you're afraid of learning, then you're limiting your personal growth. So they're like the first year when I started entrepreneurship, you know, my mentor would tell me how to do things and and and try to teach me skills right and i will be like, well I don't think that's sound I'd like to do things by way because I think I smarter And truth be told I wasn't I just talking yeah I just I just thought I was and obviously I failed multiple times you know, and and I was really stubborn I was really stubborn as a person I still think I still thought my way was better way you know, even though I couldn't yield any success you know, that's how stuff gonna work one day. Yeah, but the more I talk to other people, I feel like this is actually not

My problem, it's actually a very common,

the older you become, especially the more a person is clean to cling on the ideas or the experience and use that to do the way how they want to do things. And so yeah, so that would be my answer. Be open mind. And yeah,

just don't think you're going. You're always right. Yeah. Yeah,

I think that's massive. And I know it sounds like a cliche as well. But no, I think it's true. It's true. And I really think you touched on something very significant and I don't want to get to a just here but I think you touched on something very significant in that the older people get the more people tend to get stuck in their ways it's just a fact it's i'm not i'm not being an ageless and, and there's a reason for that, like you let's say, you know, you know, you know,

the analogy of like a child. It's like a white piece of paper. It's there's like Nate like they're just soaking information.

Because they don't know anything anyways, whatever you tell them will become what piece of paper will be. So for them, the learning curve is obvious school and we'd be super high. Now if you talk to a person with a lot of experience, they've, you know, they've they've had like multiple businesses or they've done like a lot in their career

and you tell them to learn a new skill set, there's going to be a lot of mental blocks and you can't blame them. It's just how the brain is being wired. You know, and, and to to flip that switch is not as easy really as flipping the switch. There are habits that you're just

you know, you you've been doing the same thing for 20 years and you tell the person know, do something different now,

you can't expect like miracles to happen overnight. So persistence, you know, grit that's also a big factor but just to open up you know, is the first step of really learning different things because

like we like

I would say I am open mine at this moment of time. But I can't say when someone else tells me something, I'll be like, Oh yeah, I'll definitely want to learn something about it. I'm still going to be a little bit hesitant or because I'm older. That's a fact. Right? Yeah. So when you want to recruit someone, even in like line of business and network marketing business, we always prefer recruiting younger people than older people. Because by experience, we know it's just harder to train. Now, if you do pick up someone that's with experience, and that's very open minded, and that's willing to learn and that can, you can see that growth I congratulate you, but they're not like there. It's not like you can just randomly pick someone on off the streets. I actually have one strategy that I originally employed to become a better podcast or an interviewer, but it ended up extending into a lot of different areas of my life. Okay, and it was this interview tip that I got from my good friend is one of the most charismatic people I know and he said, any anytime you're interviewing or even when you're trying to talk to someone

Just in your life always strive to see what you can learn from that person hmm here is the important bit no matter who they are no matter who they are if you actually go and look at the interviews that I'm Oprah did maybe one of the best interviewers of all time she interviews the Dalai Lama she interviews brock obama everyone the world leaders but the same interest the same genuine interest in what she can learn from the President of the United States she gives that same interest to a seven year old stand who ran a seven year old who ran a lemonade stand the gentleman you can watch the interview she's on the edge of her seat. Mm hmm. Talking to a seven year old girl yeah, as lemonade stand

and I think that's very very important because you know even if you do keep your mind open to new ideas, which is a big F there a lot of people who meant they'll be closed off to anyone there are a lot of people were

You can have Grant Cardone coming in your door trying to give you advice and legitimately they're crazy enough to keep their mind closed. Yeah, maybe someone like him was telling them,

but even going beyond that

there are things you can learn from people who are less experienced than you. And I actually learned this

very concretely when I started training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu because it's, it's, it's a martial art where you just spar all the time and you're constantly trying to choke out and murder the the person who's in front of you. And while you might have five years of training or something like that, and you know

more about 99 out of 100 areas of jujitsu than you maybe that white belt, maybe that blue belt will just catch you in this weird particular move. And they know really, really well maybe you know, the choke really, really well here, even though an arm bar really well here. And so even though in 99 out of 100 facets of jujitsu

You're better than them. There's that one area, even though they're less experienced than you, they know more than you. And you should always think that when you look at a person, you should think what is at the minimum, that one area, they have more, by the way, but what is that one area? They know more than me, because everyone is an expert in something that you're not

totally agree 100%. Now,

if you want to practice that, then my way of

employing the strategy is to constantly remind myself to not judge anyone that's sitting in front of me that has anything to say about anything, right? And it's again, you have to be easier said than done. Yeah, it's easier said than done. And it's also the to not judge out loud, but it's that internal monologue that's hard, which is the same essentially because if you're judging internally, you're still not listening to what they have to offer, which could potentially be some wisdom or some

experience that you can learn from. Right?


for that, I don't have anything to add on it. I agree.


I'm curious your opinion on this, because I think I predict and I might be wrong, but I predict you might go against the grain of the conventional wisdom a little bit. Just a little bit. Okay. Do you think that you should follow what you're passionate about? Or should you follow what makes money? Yeah, I'm


follow your passion, such a cliche, say, follow your passion. No, it's such a cliche. Oh, yeah, yeah,

yeah, it's decent advice, but it can some people up.

So he essentially who says these things, right? People who are already successful

I would, I would say if you can make loads of money, and it's also your passion doing that you found the Holy Grail.

But it's not

it's not common, you know, it's not common in a sense.

I think most people who have acquired wealth, it's not doing something they like at the beginning, at least. Now, further down the road, they might have more choices, because

it's a matter of options

when you have nothing.

You just have to do whatever it takes to move on that ladder, right? And without any choice choices, then how are you going to just follow your passion?

Like, unless your passion is making money, which is not even a passion? It's just like, if you're very fortunate if that's your path. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know anyone who has this passion of making money. But if your passion is making money, that basically means whatever the means it is I'll just do it to make money and that's great. But most of the time when people say follow your passion,

it's it's too

For me, I don't think if there's any likes absence, so that's why I don't. I never tell people to follow your passion. You know,

if you want to do some kind of feeling you it on the whole follow your passion.

Try not to. But for me it's like if you want to be successful, let's say, right? You have to,

you have to you have to almost do something that you don't like, or you don't feel comfortable or it's not your passion. Let me put it that way. Yeah. And, and,

and you still have to do it because that's what it takes to become successful. That's most likely what it's going to take the mic alone, even if you are following your passion, there's gonna be a lot of aspects of following your passion that you're not going to be passionate about. Yeah, exactly. Like some people say, Oh, I love traveling. So this is going to be my business and i and i want to do this. Yeah, but traveling is one thing. monetizing through traveling is another thing you have fun building that WordPress site for hundred hours and putting affiliate links everywhere and yada yada yada. Yeah. So So what does it mean when you say, Oh, I'm doing this because something happens.

You know, yeah,

yeah. Well, it's a balance. You know, if you're looking down the path of I make a million dollars a year at some

whatever job working for a corporation or I work as a pottery sculptor, whatever. And I'm barely scraping by on on

the scraps that I get

so when you look at it, that black and white of Oh, I make

Let's hope it's not the third time because that means it's an urgent matter. Hmm. Then we can pass this right yeah, okay. Totally. I'm not live only you are. Yeah, no thing know the drill. If it's like the second time I'm usually picking up the phone. Okay, she's not coming back anyway. So if you're looking down the barrel of one job that makes you hundreds of thousands

dollars you're here and another job or let's say your passion let's say you want to be a painter. Whatever you're into the makes absolutely no money. It is a lot easier to tell that person

you know, stick with your current job. But sometimes it can get a little bit murky in that maybe you could follow your passion and you won't be rich to support yourself. I'm saying make $40,000 a year you'll support yourself or you also need to look at how much do you hate your actual job you know yeah

and so I guess this is the topic of

doing the things you love to do and being content with it right so you it's there's there's absolutely no product no problem if you choose to do something only when you have the passion of doing but be prepared for the consequences good or bad meaning if it's something that you know that it was not going to you money because you're doing pottery

right and that's the only thing you do because that's your passion then be content with the lifestyle that brings along with that passion that you do. Don't about not having money. Yeah. And not driving a Lamborghini and doing my passion that's that's just unrealistic, right? And so there's that part and then there's another part that how grounded you are and doing things so so just be realistic you know that's all I'm going to say and on top of that I think there's a lot to be said about

following your passion but meeting in the middle and that you need to have your passion meet the world in a realistic way and in a way that you can actually support yourself from so let's say you're doing pottery right? Most people think I just want to do pottery all day. Maybe that's the part you love. Well cool, that's cool. No, no one's gonna buy pottery. We have plates but you start a blog on pottery. Yeah, you start a YouTube channel on pottery if you become the four

Most internet expert on pottery suddenly you're following your passion and you're making money. But you're not doing your passion. Now you're doing a different profession of jobs. You can hire people to do that. If you have money in the first place. Let's see. That's that's not that's not the passion of the person unintentionally. So meeting the middle ground here simply means being realistic about everything. Like there's no such thing as

I don't believe. I don't believe

on the routines of every single person's life. That 100% of it is just I love doing this and I'm perfectly fine doing Yeah, I mean, there are just 100% but it'd be better to get that to 80% rather than 2%. Yeah, but it's just it's just a balance of things right? It's just how how you perceive things and and, and sometimes just because you're not doing your passion doesn't mean you're hating it. It's like

are essential. Yeah, you have to do you know,

you have to buy groceries. You have to throw out the trash. You have to wash your dishes. He's our mundane work that you still have to put that time doing it. You're not going to love doing it. Unless you're a freak. But I love doing those dishes. Yeah, but Zen monk might enjoy. They have a saying Zen isn't doing the dishes. But the I mean that that's reality. But the reality is, that's part of the days of a life that someone has to do those jobs. So you still have to do it. Yeah, you know,

exactly. I mean, sometimes I question how much money will legitimately make me happy? Should I acquire it? Because, you know,

we might have this idea in our head of how much $10 million what makes us happy, but you won't really know until you actually get there and

I have a feeling make me pretty happy but not as happy to give it credit. So so that's a question now,

do you have a goal Do you have the money dollar you know, you need to get there to make you happy.

So I have a bit of a more nuanced view when it comes to money and specifically the amount of money they'll make me happy. So I do not want money to buy things with the exception of a few things. I really like food and we like to travel but I don't one a nice car.

I don't want nice clothes. I don't want jewelry. I don't want the new iPhone. I don't want the new lab maybe there's a part of me that does don't I'm not a Buddhist monk. But for the most part that stuff doesn't interest me okay what I want money for is a tool for freedom hmm I want money so that I can live a location independent lifestyle I want money so that I can retire when I'm 40 or whatever he would money interests me and so far and that it gives me my time back Yeah, money does not interest me because I want to plasma screen TV. So based on that

Yeah, $3 million.

That's one of cash. $3 million

amount. Okay, $3 million in cash up. Alright, so.

So on this

I have $1 amount in my mind how much I need, but it's more like a sustainable thing as an Are you saying need or your What do you mean? That's, that's my goal. Like, okay, your goal? Yeah so my goal is my goal to it's not a lot it's like a maybe 100,000 a month a month over month well that's where my $3 million came from. Because if you look at the passive income are going to generate Yeah, from a let's say a safe index fund I'll have a million dollars pretty close to 1000 yeah so $100,000

a month is something that sustainable like an income that I would get would you know, have with no way to say a month by month Oh,, I would say

no, no. Okay. That's that's Yeah, I I did this by the year yeah, that's that. Yeah. You're balling a lot harder than I am. No, but but the reason why it needs so much money is because

I have I want to do a lot of things. It's not that I want to spend it. But I have ambition to do more things with the money you want to do that you need $100,000 a month for. So one of my Well, this is the only, like,

ultimate goal I have at this time being is to actually set up a community

in Chiang Mai for my friends and anyone that I'm connected with in Hong Kong, who struggles to have

a quality of retirement life in Hong Kong, because it's a very big issue right now. Like, I'm sure you heard about, like, aging population, like, you know, the baby boomers like this is a big problem. And there's a problem in Japan. Yeah, so Japan is the first country that has an aging population with

and their problem is not so much of quality of life because the government is pretty okay in terms of taking care of them. Loneliness is the biggest problem with a lot of older people because they don't have a community

Right, we need like an old Japanese tender.

Yeah, they do have something. Yeah. But do you know that there's actually a news article that published I think it was a month ago. And it was something saying how these older people in Japan are,


purposely committing petty crimes to put themselves in

so that they, they have a, they at least have a place to live with a sense of like, belonging. Ah, that's I'm not saying it's a norm. I'm just saying there are people in Japan, Japan doing that is thing I've ever heard in my life, you will be more you will be surprised that there are more of these people then, you know, like that there are more of these people are they just not having kids? It's just the effect of not having children. Well, when you're 89 years old, your spouse is probably dead you're safe siblings are I mean you're you're young you're younger ones are probably don't want anything to do with you. Right? And you're living in a town that has no money when she's 89 serious.

But I mean, but but a lot of time with small unit families and you don't have like a good relationship with your children or grandchildren, right? There are a lot of old people and they're sick and they're lonely and their life is miserable,

if not anything worse than that you want to develop a community for them. Yes. So in Hong Kong is really cool. So yeah, so in Hong Kong, basically, the problem has been like even worse because of cost of living and because of lack of social care and because a lot of people are just wanting to leave and then there's political issues and all that right. So when I first got here eight years ago,

and I saw this place in like, Dude, this is livable for like people for Hong Kong people. And this place is cheap, and this place is nice. And I think there's something I can do here, right? So this has always been my biggest motive. When I started my network marketing business, whatever I'm doing right. I want to buy a big piece of land I want to

These community houses but I don't want to just sell property. I'm not like a property agent thing. This is a project that I will just bring in Hong Kong people. I'm not saying I don't want other people, but it's a sense of community that you can speak Cantonese, you're hanging out with people that has the same background, and they're happily living there in their late 60s until whenever they feel like leaving, or they just either if they want to, well, that's awesome. Because you have a greater goal and money for the sake of money, I don't think will make you happy. Yes. So So the reason why I need so much money is because it's a very expensive project. Yeah. And so I need that money to start building it right. And it's not going to be done over like two three years. So I'm giving myself an eight year nine year goal here. Oh, man, is what's it was a 10 year goal the year before I moved in. So this 10 years until you get started in 10 years until I finish Oh, yeah. So so from now I have I'm sending my myself a timeframe of like in the next seven to nine years, I just will

become a reality. I will have that community built. And I can tell people, Yo, I have this place, you'd still need to pay. It's a business, but it's affordable. And you'll have, you know, you have a place to stay. You have your community, you don't really need to learn type, you know, the greater purpose, like the profit is not the main motive. Yeah, but,

but this is not a business. This is just my dream. Yes, is my goal, right? So I but to achieve that goal, I need to have business that will bring me the money to do that. Right. And that's my drive. That's my motivation of being an entrepreneur. That is a very good answer, because I've always been of the belief system and I believe is Jordan Peterson that originally taught me this and that your self worth is determined by your contribution to society. Right? Yeah.

And that is a bit of a pervasive thought that I've always had its this thought that I have of happiness versus fulfillment, so

Let me show you what I mean by that. Traveling. I love traveling. I love traveling. I love it. But traveling makes me happy in the same way that eating a delicious stick might make me happy. It's a feeling of consumption. I put the stake my body, I feel happy. No, I travel somewhere. I feel happy.

But it's not this sustainable, white hot flame that I get from a feeling of fulfillment, which is the feeling of creation. Mm hmm. Right. So

it's it's going and watching YouTube video compared to going in making a YouTube video going and creating content, putting things out there, especially if it's legitimate content that helps people if you're creating something that helps people and makes the world a better place that gives you something It's a feeling similar to happiness. If you're not paying attention. You might think it's happiness, but it's deeper than that. It's a deeper feeling. I'm pretty sure it can be.

Scientifically proven that by creating you know throughout the process of creation and and benefiting to society that that level of fulfillment it's always going to be better than spending a million dollars in a Lamborghini or buying the next like most expensive watch or purse or whatever that item is right you have to instantaneous like like pleasure of doing that but it disappears pretty fast and there's tons of psychology like research on that but yes you're right like so for me it's like

I know it's going to take a lot of time I know it's going to be a very difficult task there's also chances that I might not succeed in doing this right but throughout that process of you know like that's my purpose pretty much in life and that also is not a selfless purpose that's a very selfish purpose I would argue because for me selfless no it's not because do you wanna do you want to kick it here in your old Is that why not? Yeah, no, basically.

Whatever it whenever people do anything there's always there's always have to be like a fulfillment within the self to to make it worth doing I think people are biologically designed to be selfish it's just a survival instinct. Well, that's kind of this greater this greater question, right does altruism is exist? It does. But it's not without like, without any selfish self selfish intentions or you know, and so for me, the reason why I'm doing this is because I know for a fact that I cannot be 100 years old, assuming I'm super healthy because I'm also doing a lot of stuff that would keep me healthy taking the supplements and all right, you can't be 100 or you can Okay, so so.

So that's a good looking guy. If I'm 100 years old, right? Yeah, that's a possibility. But I'm not gonna be happy if I'm the only person within my social circle that's living with a very lavish lifestyle is Whoa, talks still gonna be going on on your hundred? I hope so. Hey there various girl periscope is still a thing eat mouth.

later but but that's the thing like I don't want to be old by myself I know loneliness it's a it's a it's a mystery it's a mystery it's a suffering right and it's not only for me it's for a lot of people and that's a legitimate fear and we need to be prepared for it and this is my prep work for

like avoiding myself from falling into that misery of life because I want to be happy and to be happy I want to hang out with my homies that they also have do I get a spot if your Hong Kong condo hey

yeah I mean there's always some Cantonese first uh. Well I can build another one if I have enough money you know yeah you can you can get your dominance allowed Americans like me Hey doesn't matter you know just build a big whoa whoa. talks over there and over here I'll have my podcast like he did Yeah, yeah. with whatever


trippy trippy thing that you guys are doing? No, by no means I want to isolate to communities or anything. But the gate the gate between the two. Yeah. Well, it'll be heavily guarded. Obviously I'd be like a North South Korean border. But we'll have some flow here and there. But. But people want a sense of belonging. People want to be living in a place that they're familiar with. And it's not only the physical location you talk to retirees here in Chiang Mai. I haven't I haven't done enough yet. But I still feel like a lot of them are quite lonely I mean I mean otherwise why would they have Thai wife's that they've taken barely communicate with why would they be living so far out and country countryside or they're sitting in the in a bar drinking by themselves, right? Yeah, they're retiring here. The quality of life on the materialistic level might be better than back home. But by no means they are happy. I don't I mean, there are some but I think there are also a lot of them are not happy and that's not something that

it's it's a house it's it's it's having something it's not that

tangible asset. It's a community sense of belonging that I have people that can hang out with that's very lacking. That's very lacking. And that's, that's what I wanted to. It's not the house, it's the house. But it's more than the house, I would argue that that sense of community is lacking. Even in a lot of young folks that can be hard to find. Yeah, but if you're not looking, you're not being proactive about it. So, I mean, definitely, there's, there's a market for everything. But for me, because I'm from Hong Kong, I know the community I can relate to them. I'm also into wellness, business, anti aging business, you know, so I'm always finding similar businesses that I would incorporate into whatever then I started off and go off and see if this is helping me to materialize The ultimate goal that I want to become or to a half or to achieve, right? Yeah, it's good that you have an ultimate goal in mind though I think people need to get one of those. It's it's necessary but it's also a journey so

It's not like if you don't have one, then you're a loser. I don't think that like that. But I feel like you need to have that question to be posting in your mind. And and if you don't have it now then thinking about it again and think about it more, because that will be the ultimate satisfaction,

you know, to to truly know what your purpose of life is. That sounds like a cliche. It's funny, I was talking to this girl who I don't think I've disagreed with someone this hard in a long time. Oh, yeah. And she was talking about how goals are detrimental to your mindset and your health. She said, goals are bad. And I said,


And she said, Well, because when you achieve the goal, you're left with the feeling of emptiness and you have nothing left because you're not working towards anything anymore. And apparently this is this is set more goals. That's what I said. That's what I'm like sitting at home. go. What do you What are you talking about? Apparently, this is an idea.

So so you don't you don't make any goals in life did you? Well, okay. So I dug deeper because I wasn't having a. Yeah. And she said, Well, you should live rather than living by your goals. You should live by your values which just seems a bit esoteric. I guess I get what you're getting at but instead of goal she a yogi yep yeah yep yeah yo p again probably vegetarian at least yeah we've got I don't want to judge but a lot of those guys really judge you here I'm just really you have this interesting Venn diagram of people in Chiang Mai where it's either the hard core digital nomad e commerce affiliate marketing make money online hundred thousand dollars a month dude who came out here and just wants to slay and it and kill it all the time. And then we have all the yogi meditators that teach English which I definitely do love those guys. I think there's a lot to be learned from those guys. But we need to meet somewhere in

The middle. Yeah, I'm just not the extremist of anything. Yeah. Like, you're never going to hear me pushing the super hard agenda on any topic. Because anything that goes into the extreme is not healthy, or I don't, I don't see any benefit of it. Like, there's an its life is not a zero sum game. It's always like compromises and and especially when you need to deal with people, right? Like if someone wants to have, let's say,

a person to live together with for the rest of their life, right? It's never going to be your way.

It has to be mutual agreement on millions of topics. And, and that's not that's not a process that you will always win. You're going to you're going to lose some two wins up, right? And so what's it going to say? I was gonna say Yeah. Like so. So extremists or ideologists that has these

statements they make in life. Like you should never have goals and just live by the values of your life. What does that

Well, you know, it's funny because that's, that's an idea that I juggle around a lot is should you zone in on one thing in life? Or should we strive more for balance, right? And it gets a little confusing country just sewn in for balance. Well, that's actually a very good way. That's a very good way. But it's actually harder than to go extreme. Exactly. That's in my way of doing things. You can you can,

you can kill it, you can also bomb it right? And that's easier. I would argue that's easier than finding the middle ground and doing things because when you have to find that middle ground, that means you have to do both, but not have either side kind of counter that scale to tip it and to unscrew things and it takes a lot of discipline so to give us so yeah, so focusing in doesn't mean you have to just

Ignore the rest of the world and do that. One thing that you're targeting on, you know, for me focusing in is finding the balance and everything of life, relationships, businesses health, because you can be super healthy, but you cannot enjoy food at all. I love my steaks. I love my ice cream. I let my booze I know it's not healthy. I mean, I know alcohol is not good for your liver. But I cannot live without drinking a sip of alcohol for the rest of my life. So do I want to be a health freak? Or do I want to be healthy, but also enjoy eating and drinking moderately? That is even harder to do. You nailed it. That is harder to do. And I've actually experienced that personally because I've actually I've recently given up drinking and for me giving up drinking entirely and you can apply this to bad food or never giving up drinking entirely was much easier than saying you know what I'm going to drink, but I'm going to do it.

90% less because then I can just look at the world. black and white. Yes, you know, black and white on or off zero or one either drink or I don't and to say I don't drink then I don't you know, I might be hurting the beginning but I don't really have to think about it after that. I don't I just don't drink.

Whereas if you drink moderately, you kind of always have to keep yourself in check. You always have to be doing things with intention saying why am I drinking this? How much am I drinking and that can be applied you drink the tequila they serve you for 40 pot or you're just by like, spend money and a good bottle of tequila like a patrol or Don Julio whatever right but just enjoy that with your good friends at the you know, like a celebration time because someone's giving birth to a baby or someone's birthday give the baby shot right if it's a drone yeah don't don't give the baby that you don't give them to shoot cheap shot, you know? No, but it is like if you only have one shot if you can only limit yourself to one shot today. You don't want during the cheap should drink exactly the decent one.

Exactly. Yeah. But that's harder to achieve. Right? Drink. Good. Tequila. JOHN.. And he's been at this for two hours. Is it? Yeah. Time flies into this. Good to have you on. Yes. Very good to have you on. I don't know. Where can we find you? I don't suppose you have a social media account. Yeah. So it's across the board and Twitter, Instagram, Periscope, my website. JOHN. m.

Whoa. Joe ah. N m, eh. Oh, so you can find me well My website is closed down for maintenance but it's it's john m dot com. But everywhere else is Sean mo badass john m Whoa. Thank you make about his thoughts. Mm hmm. marinate on him. Get Rich live the john mo lifestyle. Amen. Thank you for having me. Letterman. Thank you for listening to the mental architect. I am your host Sam cb. If you enjoyed this episode, go on down to iTunes and smash that review button so hard that your finger falls off.

If you want to learn the secrets of the universe or if you want to watch the video version of this podcast go to CMC Bri dot com.

This has been your no blueprint for peak performance. And as always, until next time

Sam is an ambassador for personal growth. When Sam started to take action towards a better life, it wasn’t long before he was hooked faster than Captain Blackbeard’s left hand. Years later, Sam strives to produce change in others similar to the identity level transformation which occurred within himself. His aim is to break fulfillment down into a series of straightforward steps, and introduce it into the life of anyone who is willing to embark on the path of action, education and ownership.